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On simulating things: what, why, and how?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8672186" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>The point is, what does that even mean? What are the properties of a demon? How do they interact with lightning? (Be that normal, or magical.)</p><p></p><p>Suppose I change the number of dice the lightning bolt does from 18d6 to 36d6. Or suppose I change the die size from d6 to d8. Or suppose I decide that demons are immune to being struck by lightning (the AD&D MM says they take half damage). Have I improved my simulation? Made it worse? There are no answers to those questions, because there are no correctness conditions, which is to say it's not a simulation at all. It's just storytelling, mediated via some dice rolls.</p><p></p><p>My point is that AD&D can cater to the preferences of someone who doesn't like simulation! The way that AD&D resolves the archmage shooting a lightning bolt at the demon doesn't model anything. Yet plenty of people have enjoyed playing AD&D.</p><p></p><p> [USER=99817]@chaochou[/USER]'s point is that saying that a lightning bolt does 18d6 damage, and that half that damage is suffered by the demon, and because the demon has 8d8+8 hit point it is likely to survive (before we even factor in magic resistance or saving throws), is all <em>just making stuff up</em>.</p><p></p><p>Nothing in the AD&D Monster Manual has any weight to it, beyond stipulating some parameters that get fed into resolution systems to work out what happens when creature A fights creature B. Which is completely different from wargame design, that actually aspires to have those parameters generate outcomes that are known, from history and experience, to be plausible.</p><p></p><p>AD&D adopts the trappings of wargame resolution, but is not actually a simulation of anything.</p><p></p><p>And then we get the question: given that it's all just making stuff up, what is the benefit of using the stuff in the books rather than just making up one's own stuff? There might be good answers to that question, but the idea that the books are giving us accurate simulations of something couldn't be one of them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8672186, member: 42582"] The point is, what does that even mean? What are the properties of a demon? How do they interact with lightning? (Be that normal, or magical.) Suppose I change the number of dice the lightning bolt does from 18d6 to 36d6. Or suppose I change the die size from d6 to d8. Or suppose I decide that demons are immune to being struck by lightning (the AD&D MM says they take half damage). Have I improved my simulation? Made it worse? There are no answers to those questions, because there are no correctness conditions, which is to say it's not a simulation at all. It's just storytelling, mediated via some dice rolls. My point is that AD&D can cater to the preferences of someone who doesn't like simulation! The way that AD&D resolves the archmage shooting a lightning bolt at the demon doesn't model anything. Yet plenty of people have enjoyed playing AD&D. [USER=99817]@chaochou[/USER]'s point is that saying that a lightning bolt does 18d6 damage, and that half that damage is suffered by the demon, and because the demon has 8d8+8 hit point it is likely to survive (before we even factor in magic resistance or saving throws), is all [i]just making stuff up[/i]. Nothing in the AD&D Monster Manual has any weight to it, beyond stipulating some parameters that get fed into resolution systems to work out what happens when creature A fights creature B. Which is completely different from wargame design, that actually aspires to have those parameters generate outcomes that are known, from history and experience, to be plausible. AD&D adopts the trappings of wargame resolution, but is not actually a simulation of anything. And then we get the question: given that it's all just making stuff up, what is the benefit of using the stuff in the books rather than just making up one's own stuff? There might be good answers to that question, but the idea that the books are giving us accurate simulations of something couldn't be one of them. [/QUOTE]
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