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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8674846" data-attributes="member: 6987520">I wasn't aware you and I were disagreeing... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused&nbsp; &nbsp; :confused:"&nbsp; data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />I never made one... <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷‍♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" title="Man shrugging&nbsp; &nbsp; :man_shrugging:" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />And yet this we agree on (I think)... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f914.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":unsure:" title="Unsure&nbsp; &nbsp; :unsure:"&nbsp; data-smilie="24"data-shortname=":unsure:" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />For example, if you shove a creature, knocking it prone, we know it is prone and you caused it. But the how you accomplished this is completely narrative. Did you grab it and use your foot to trip it? Did you put both hands on it and just push it over? Since 5E's &quot;shove&quot; doesn't differentiate between a shove and a trip or do some sort of hip toss, we just don't know. So, this is the narrative provided by the player and/or DM as to the &quot;how&quot; is accomplished.Was the attempt easy for you? Difficult? Again, we have no way of knowing this from the simple contested roll involved. Now, you could use a system where the closer the contested roll, the harder it was, but unless that also carries some impact there is little point in doing it so (in general) it isn't done. This is the matter of scale, you mention. It could be done, but what would the point be other than determining one aspect of the narrative--the difficulty. (Even with that, you still have to decide how granular you want it to be...).Personally, I don't have any issue with this. The systems in 5E generate a very general and vague simulation in most cases, and the narratives fill in the details when needed or desired.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8674846, member: 6987520"] I wasn't aware you and I were disagreeing... :confused: I never made one... 🤷‍♂️ And yet this we agree on (I think)... :unsure: :) For example, if you shove a creature, knocking it prone, we know it is prone and you caused it. But the [I]how[/I] you accomplished this is completely narrative. Did you grab it and use your foot to trip it? Did you put both hands on it and just push it over? Since 5E's "shove" doesn't differentiate between a shove and a trip or do some sort of hip toss, we just don't know. So, this is the narrative provided by the player and/or DM as to the "how" is accomplished. Was the attempt easy for you? Difficult? Again, we have no way of knowing this from the simple contested roll involved. Now, you [I]could[/I] use a system where the closer the contested roll, the harder it was, but unless that also carries some impact there is little point in doing it so (in general) it isn't done. This is the matter of scale, you mention. It could be done, but what would the point be other than determining one aspect of the narrative--the difficulty. (Even with that, you still have to decide how granular you want it to be...). Personally, I don't have any issue with this. The systems in 5E generate a very general and vague simulation in most cases, and the narratives fill in the details when needed or desired. [/QUOTE]

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