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<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8674858" data-attributes="member: 6987520">To me, the mechanics determine the outcome, which is part of the simulation IMO -- reaching the end state. Without the mechanics, you don't even know if the process worked, worked with complications, or failed entirely.But even the last two states are up to the DM really. Like your climbing example, you rolled a 9. The DM decides if that is progress with a setback or complete failure.I understand that lack of information on the black box process means it is not a simulation to you, but then what is the difference from the beginning state to the end state?To me, it is simulating the action, but we agree the black box in between is the gray area--we know nothing about this. Anyway, that is why I said 5E is a vague simulation of such things and the rest (the bulk of it) is either narrated or ignored (if unimportant to the group).FWIW, LOVE this stick figures LOL!!!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8674858, member: 6987520"] To me, the mechanics determine the outcome, which is [I]part of the simulation[/I] IMO -- reaching the end state. Without the mechanics, you don't even know if the process worked, worked with complications, or failed entirely. But even the last two states are up to the DM really. Like your climbing example, you rolled a 9. The DM decides if that is progress with a setback or complete failure. I understand that lack of information on the black box process means it is not a simulation to you, but then what is the difference from the beginning state to the end state? To me, it is simulating the action, but we agree the black box in between is the gray area--we know nothing about this. Anyway, that is why I said 5E is a [I]vague [/I]simulation of such things and the rest (the bulk of it) is either narrated or ignored (if unimportant to the group). FWIW, LOVE this stick figures LOL!!! [/QUOTE]

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