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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8675192" data-attributes="member: 16814">Yes!&nbsp; Your attempt to strawman has failed, because you've managed to hit the nail on the head!&nbsp; Dragons are really big in my world.&nbsp; They fit in 20'x20' grid spaces.&nbsp; I don't bother reconciling these things because one I'm using for narrative purposes and the other after the combat swoosh has happened and we're in game mode for combat.&nbsp; I mean, that's exactly how 5e presents itself, yes?To drop the big Forge stuff, 5e is incoherent.&nbsp; I embrace it.&nbsp; Works a champ.I can go back and get quotes.&nbsp; You started by saying fighting dragons on foot with hand weapons makes sense because people killed mammoths (without noting anything about what actually hunting mammoths looks like -- not going toe-to-toe, but that was handwaved away and not addressed).&nbsp; This got challenged by noting that dragons are far bigger, tougher, and meaner.&nbsp; That got waved away, eventually landing on the fact that they're only slightly bigger because of gargantuan grid size assignment.&nbsp; Then T-Rexes got brought up as being actually larger than their grid size, and that got dealt with by 'well, sometimes their bigger (when they attack only) but mostly their still that size.'&nbsp; This then got ported to dragons, and it was also offered that dragons change size the same way.&nbsp; That this meant changing size was ignored.&nbsp; And now were at least at a point where an attacking gargantuan dragon is, what, 20'x20' most of the time, but when it attacks it's 35'x35'?&nbsp; This doesn't push anyone away, it's only that big for purposes of attacking and not occupying space on the battlefield, or something.&nbsp; However, this bring up that the attacking gargantuan dragon is freaking huge compared to mammoths, so we need to go back to the beginning and look at how that works, again.&nbsp; Unless the plan is to only have argument be valid for that particular step, and then they cannot be challenged ever again, so that we can go dragons are like mammoths--&gt;dragons are not like mammoths but never have to return to the first step.&nbsp; I mean, okay -- you can absolutely say &quot;don't bore me with the details, I like what I like, shrug emoji' but that kinda undercuts the argument that you're really, really into the simulation thing.&nbsp; I don't know why you feel you need to be, 5e is a terrible game for simulation.Also, challenging you is not lying.&nbsp; Let's not do that again.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8675192, member: 16814"] Yes! Your attempt to strawman has failed, because you've managed to hit the nail on the head! Dragons are really big in my world. They fit in 20'x20' grid spaces. I don't bother reconciling these things because one I'm using for narrative purposes and the other after the combat swoosh has happened and we're in game mode for combat. I mean, that's exactly how 5e presents itself, yes? To drop the big Forge stuff, 5e is incoherent. I embrace it. Works a champ. I can go back and get quotes. You started by saying fighting dragons on foot with hand weapons makes sense because people killed mammoths (without noting anything about what actually hunting mammoths looks like -- not going toe-to-toe, but that was handwaved away and not addressed). This got challenged by noting that dragons are far bigger, tougher, and meaner. That got waved away, eventually landing on the fact that they're only slightly bigger because of gargantuan grid size assignment. Then T-Rexes got brought up as being actually larger than their grid size, and that got dealt with by 'well, sometimes their bigger (when they attack only) but mostly their still that size.' This then got ported to dragons, and it was also offered that dragons change size the same way. That this meant changing size was ignored. And now were at least at a point where an attacking gargantuan dragon is, what, 20'x20' most of the time, but when it attacks it's 35'x35'? This doesn't push anyone away, it's only that big for purposes of attacking and not occupying space on the battlefield, or something. However, this bring up that the attacking gargantuan dragon is freaking huge compared to mammoths, so we need to go back to the beginning and look at how that works, again. Unless the plan is to only have argument be valid for that particular step, and then they cannot be challenged ever again, so that we can go dragons are like mammoths-->dragons are not like mammoths but never have to return to the first step. I mean, okay -- you can absolutely say "don't bore me with the details, I like what I like, shrug emoji' but that kinda undercuts the argument that you're really, really into the simulation thing. I don't know why you feel you need to be, 5e is a terrible game for simulation. Also, challenging you is not lying. Let's not do that again. [/QUOTE]

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