Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8675313" data-attributes="member: 16814">Oh, sorry, I was using your numbers.&nbsp; I don't care how big dragons are in my game, because I'm not trying to simulate anything.&nbsp; D&amp;D presents them as stupendously big, though.&nbsp; I mean, I know you've completely discarded art, but WotC keeps picking big pictures of dragons, and keeps making massive miniatures of them that are bigger than the 20'x20' space they tell me they take up.Silly thing to do.&nbsp; Dragons fighting tanks makes way more sense than Neolithic hunters killing mammoths by scaring them over cliffs with torches.Oh, no, my sense of realism is perfectly fine.&nbsp; My need for it playing 5e is different.&nbsp; It's not really more plausible for renaissance humans to kill megafauna with hand weapons, actually.&nbsp; Steel polearms are marginally better, but getting hit by angry bull mammoth tusk while wearing plate armor isn't going to have a much different outcome than getting hit without it.&nbsp; I'm not sure why you think some steel overcomes mass and inertia -- Neolithic hunters weren't killing by mammoths using human strength and hand weapons, and so armor designed to defeat human strength and hand weapons isn't gonna make much difference.&nbsp; And I'm getting accused of having bad realism sense!Now, if you want to move the discussion to crossbows, then, yeah, very different story!&nbsp; Megafauna doesn't really have much of a chance.&nbsp; Still a group effort, as one bolt would have to be very lucky to do the job, but a salvo of 20-30?&nbsp; Safe distance, good likelihood of a kill. Well, then, that's a good thing to know.&nbsp; For you, a bit means 'up to 50% more.'&nbsp; That's a fairly non-standard use of the phrase, by the way, unless you're intentionally going for litotes. Litotes is a good word, almost like the reverse of hyperbole, but it's actually meant to be understatement for the purpose of negating.&nbsp; Like, 'is it a lot bigger?&quot; And you answer, &quot;a bit.&quot;&nbsp; But what you mean is, &quot;yeah, a lot bigger!&quot;&nbsp; That's litotes.No, I really don't.&nbsp; I, in fact, told you that this is what I do - I don't care about simulation and just go with what the game rules say.&nbsp; You told me this was terribad.&nbsp; I don't believe that there's a simulation of anything going on here, I just narrate something that fits well enough with the game rules to not cause a stop in play and don't care about it past that.&nbsp; There's no attempt to model reality, or simulate anything.&nbsp; Dragon is 20'x20'.&nbsp; It can attack 15' past that with some attacks.&nbsp; Okay, I describe a thing after the fact and am done with it.&nbsp; I'm not trying to conceive of some coherent ur-simulation of this.&nbsp; I've seen zero evidence of this.&nbsp; I've seen evidence that they are less simulationist that I really paid attention to before.&nbsp; You certainly haven't presented anything new, just kept telling me that the simulation is there, I'm just a horrible person for not agreeing.Is this like the simulation in the 5e rules -- you say it's there but I can't see it?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8675313, member: 16814"] Oh, sorry, I was using your numbers. I don't care how big dragons are in my game, because I'm not trying to simulate anything. D&D presents them as stupendously big, though. I mean, I know you've completely discarded art, but WotC keeps picking big pictures of dragons, and keeps making massive miniatures of them that are bigger than the 20'x20' space they tell me they take up. Silly thing to do. Dragons fighting tanks makes way more sense than Neolithic hunters killing mammoths by scaring them over cliffs with torches. Oh, no, my sense of realism is perfectly fine. My need for it playing 5e is different. It's not really more plausible for renaissance humans to kill megafauna with hand weapons, actually. Steel polearms are marginally better, but getting hit by angry bull mammoth tusk while wearing plate armor isn't going to have a much different outcome than getting hit without it. I'm not sure why you think some steel overcomes mass and inertia -- Neolithic hunters weren't killing by mammoths using human strength and hand weapons, and so armor designed to defeat human strength and hand weapons isn't gonna make much difference. And I'm getting accused of having bad realism sense! Now, if you want to move the discussion to crossbows, then, yeah, very different story! Megafauna doesn't really have much of a chance. Still a group effort, as one bolt would have to be very lucky to do the job, but a salvo of 20-30? Safe distance, good likelihood of a kill. Well, then, that's a good thing to know. For you, a bit means 'up to 50% more.' That's a fairly non-standard use of the phrase, by the way, unless you're intentionally going for litotes. Litotes is a good word, almost like the reverse of hyperbole, but it's actually meant to be understatement for the purpose of negating. Like, 'is it a lot bigger?" And you answer, "a bit." But what you mean is, "yeah, a lot bigger!" That's litotes. No, I really don't. I, in fact, told you that this is what I do - I don't care about simulation and just go with what the game rules say. You told me this was terribad. I don't believe that there's a simulation of anything going on here, I just narrate something that fits well enough with the game rules to not cause a stop in play and don't care about it past that. There's no attempt to model reality, or simulate anything. Dragon is 20'x20'. It can attack 15' past that with some attacks. Okay, I describe a thing after the fact and am done with it. I'm not trying to conceive of some coherent ur-simulation of this. I've seen zero evidence of this. I've seen evidence that they are less simulationist that I really paid attention to before. You certainly haven't presented anything new, just kept telling me that the simulation is there, I'm just a horrible person for not agreeing. Is this like the simulation in the 5e rules -- you say it's there but I can't see it? [/QUOTE]

Verification