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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8675449" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Why are you not engaging with what I'm typing.You want receipts.  I gave them to you.Smaug was a kaiju and he was the inspiration for D&D Red Dragons.For 8 years, Adult Dragons were the limit in AD&D from 77 to 85, ending with Master Set when Kaiju were introduced.From '85 w/ Master Set > Immortals Set > Greybox FR > AD&D 2e > 3.x > 4e it was all Kaiju (outside of RC's concurrent release early 90s) through at least 2014.  That is 29 years straight.5e releases late 2014 and there is ample evidence, including the comparison to 4e Great Wyrms (also Gargantuan on the battle grid but clearly kaiju in dimensions - given), that kaiju still appear to be a thing in D&D 5e.So what are we arguing over here?This conversation should have been donezo long ago.  It was DoA.Can we just skip to the point where we all agree "yeah, it makes no sense for a Fighter to deal with these titans through martial prowess unless that same prowess extends out of combat with a supernatural athletic profile...so lets make sure that Ancient Wyrms only come in play at Epic Tier and that our Martial Heroes have sufficiently supernatural athletic prowess in and out of combat to clash with these titanic beasts in melee.  That way its easily cordoned off to the Epic Tier of play where very few souls venture.  Earlier Tiers of play can end with Adult Dragons that aren't Kaiju and those folks can have their 'bound by earth-physics martial heroes' doing relatively mundane things out of combat to go with their slightly more believable clashes with Adult Dragons."Who doesn't agree with the above at this point?  Its inarguable and its healthy for the game and the gaming culture.</blockquote>

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