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On simulating things: what, why, and how?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8676333" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>I'd point out that you're the one claiming that these are simulations. It's rather on you to show that these are actually simulations and not just making claims that you cannot back up.</p><p></p><p>------</p><p></p><p>The whole "quantum pockets" thing is really interesting to me. [USER=7025508]@Crimson Longinus[/USER] has flat out stated that these are not simulations. And, he has made it pretty clear that D&D is or at least should be, about simulation. </p><p></p><p>Yet, we have quantum pockets in the PHB. The caster's Component Pouch has been standard equipment for quite a while now. A pouch that contains any and all components you need to cast any spell that doesn't have a cost attached. So, no tracking ammunition (exactly how many pinches of guano do you have for your fireballs?), and, so long as the cost is negligible, it's an unlimited resource.</p><p></p><p>But, no one seems too bothered by that. But, we suggest that our professional adventurers simply have "slots" for equipment to be filled as needed, and suddenly that's a bridge too far and completely not simulation. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /> It always seems very strange to me that the things that people claim shouldn't be part of the game are already part of the game and have been since 5e was released.</p><p></p><p>--------</p><p></p><p>To go back to the original question. What makes something a simulation? I'd say at the very basic level, granularity. Enough granularity and you get a simulation.</p><p></p><p>Take a picture of a very expensive sports car. Hypercar. Beautiful piece of machinery. But, I think everyone agrees at this point, there's no simulation.</p><p></p><p>Now, take two pictures of this car, one in pristine condition, and the other a burning wreck. Ok, still not a simulation, but, at least our brains can start to fill in a story, but, barring any other information, all we know is that the car was destroyed.</p><p></p><p>Now, take three pictures. One of the car in pristine condition, add a picture of Mr. Richard Hammond in the middle and then a picture of the care as a burning wreck. There's a simulation. We can track A to B to C and understand pretty clearly what happened. ((For those who are not Top Gear/Grand Tour fans, Richard Hammond is a presenter on the car show that has repeatedly crashed many very, VERY expensive cars, including a beautiful Rimac hypercar a few years ago.) </p><p></p><p>Ok, so this is a bit tongue in cheek, but, it does get the point across. In order to have a simulation, you need a certain level of granularity. Pages back, I had a picture of a stick figure at the bottom of a hill, a cloud then the stick figure at the top. That's what D&D is. As soon as you engage mechanics, pretty much any mechanics, in D&D, you get this fuzzed out cloud where all the mechanics do is present you with a resolution. You have no idea how you arrived at that resolution - you just have a picture of a burning car. </p><p></p><p>So, ot answer the question of what is needed, well, granularity is generally needed. Although, sometimes, you can end run around granularity - such as the quantum backpack solutions. It's simply assumed that you put that tool in your backpack and retrieve it as needed. Now, since your backpack can only hold so much, you can't pull just anything out and once you've decided that you have items A, B and C, you cannot have item D. It actually does rather nicely simulate being well prepared for doing whatever it is you are going to do while maintaining enough limitations to avoid breaking the simulation.</p><p></p><p>See, the whole thing about simulation is that so long as you never contradict previously established facts, you can get away with a lot of things. But, you do have to establish some sort of baseline though. The backpack has useful items because you prepared before you left home. Your character lost HP but wasn't hit because your shield blocked the attack. I mentioned earlier about black boxes. Well, if you make the black boxes small enough, it becomes more like a moving picture - a series of still where any one taken out of context would be meaningless, but, strung together, inform a coherent and comprehensible narrative.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8676333, member: 22779"] I'd point out that you're the one claiming that these are simulations. It's rather on you to show that these are actually simulations and not just making claims that you cannot back up. ------ The whole "quantum pockets" thing is really interesting to me. [USER=7025508]@Crimson Longinus[/USER] has flat out stated that these are not simulations. And, he has made it pretty clear that D&D is or at least should be, about simulation. Yet, we have quantum pockets in the PHB. The caster's Component Pouch has been standard equipment for quite a while now. A pouch that contains any and all components you need to cast any spell that doesn't have a cost attached. So, no tracking ammunition (exactly how many pinches of guano do you have for your fireballs?), and, so long as the cost is negligible, it's an unlimited resource. But, no one seems too bothered by that. But, we suggest that our professional adventurers simply have "slots" for equipment to be filled as needed, and suddenly that's a bridge too far and completely not simulation. :erm: It always seems very strange to me that the things that people claim shouldn't be part of the game are already part of the game and have been since 5e was released. -------- To go back to the original question. What makes something a simulation? I'd say at the very basic level, granularity. Enough granularity and you get a simulation. Take a picture of a very expensive sports car. Hypercar. Beautiful piece of machinery. But, I think everyone agrees at this point, there's no simulation. Now, take two pictures of this car, one in pristine condition, and the other a burning wreck. Ok, still not a simulation, but, at least our brains can start to fill in a story, but, barring any other information, all we know is that the car was destroyed. Now, take three pictures. One of the car in pristine condition, add a picture of Mr. Richard Hammond in the middle and then a picture of the care as a burning wreck. There's a simulation. We can track A to B to C and understand pretty clearly what happened. ((For those who are not Top Gear/Grand Tour fans, Richard Hammond is a presenter on the car show that has repeatedly crashed many very, VERY expensive cars, including a beautiful Rimac hypercar a few years ago.) Ok, so this is a bit tongue in cheek, but, it does get the point across. In order to have a simulation, you need a certain level of granularity. Pages back, I had a picture of a stick figure at the bottom of a hill, a cloud then the stick figure at the top. That's what D&D is. As soon as you engage mechanics, pretty much any mechanics, in D&D, you get this fuzzed out cloud where all the mechanics do is present you with a resolution. You have no idea how you arrived at that resolution - you just have a picture of a burning car. So, ot answer the question of what is needed, well, granularity is generally needed. Although, sometimes, you can end run around granularity - such as the quantum backpack solutions. It's simply assumed that you put that tool in your backpack and retrieve it as needed. Now, since your backpack can only hold so much, you can't pull just anything out and once you've decided that you have items A, B and C, you cannot have item D. It actually does rather nicely simulate being well prepared for doing whatever it is you are going to do while maintaining enough limitations to avoid breaking the simulation. See, the whole thing about simulation is that so long as you never contradict previously established facts, you can get away with a lot of things. But, you do have to establish some sort of baseline though. The backpack has useful items because you prepared before you left home. Your character lost HP but wasn't hit because your shield blocked the attack. I mentioned earlier about black boxes. Well, if you make the black boxes small enough, it becomes more like a moving picture - a series of still where any one taken out of context would be meaningless, but, strung together, inform a coherent and comprehensible narrative. [/QUOTE]
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