Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
On simulating things: what, why, and how?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8676436" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>None of these claims are actually part of the rules of 5e. The item description doesn't even throw this to the GM to adjudicate as a matter of course, so you'd have to use a hard use of Rule 0 to get here. Given that pouches are the other option to a focus, which not only doesn't have any of the drawbacks you list above but also cannot have them, applying additional burdens of what is a flavor choice seems odd.</p><p></p><p>It's the underwear gnome problem. </p><p></p><p>1. Steal underwear.</p><p>2. ???</p><p>3. Profit</p><p></p><p>This is a classic black box. Input goes in, something unknowable happens, input comes out. This is a large part of 5e mechanics as well. What you're doing is looking at the input and output of the box, and then coming up with a story to bridge the two. The story creation comes after you know the ending, though, not during. The process doesn't tell you how it happens, that's what you create after the fact.</p><p></p><p>Or, in other words, a post-hoc rationalization.</p><p></p><p>And there's nothing at all wrong with doing this -- so many game rely on this kind of narration! It's just a hard sell to say that the black box resolution, followed by post-hoc rationalization of the process should be called 'simulation.' This isn't an issue of granularity -- you can have very course simulations and very fine ones, but it's important to know what the process is to move between points and be able to analyze and tweak that process. There's not process in 5e skill resolutions (or attack actions) to tweak. We have no idea how you climb a cliff with the 5e resolution process, regardless of if we chunk the cliff up into 15 foot segments or 100 foot segments. No information comes from the resolution other than success/failure.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Aces and Eights features a pretty simulationist version of gun combat, at least in the hit location procedures.</p><p></p><p>That's actually a new definition I haven't seen in the thread. This very much argues against things you've said upthread, especially about systems with fixed target numbers. They're modeling the fictional world as well. I'm gonna bet there's a upcoming argument about how they aren't real fictional world modeler, though, as that's what happened last time. Some feature that isn't really about modelling the fictional world was identified and used to exclude it from the category. If only there were a term for such a claim... oh, well, it will come to me, I'm sure.</p><p></p><p>It is, kinda, but I disagree with [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER] that there's no sim in 5e. The jumping rules are sim. We can tell that you can only jump as far as you can based on the raw strength you possess. It's not a great sim, but there's an understandable cause and effect relationship there.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8676436, member: 16814"] None of these claims are actually part of the rules of 5e. The item description doesn't even throw this to the GM to adjudicate as a matter of course, so you'd have to use a hard use of Rule 0 to get here. Given that pouches are the other option to a focus, which not only doesn't have any of the drawbacks you list above but also cannot have them, applying additional burdens of what is a flavor choice seems odd. It's the underwear gnome problem. 1. Steal underwear. 2. ??? 3. Profit This is a classic black box. Input goes in, something unknowable happens, input comes out. This is a large part of 5e mechanics as well. What you're doing is looking at the input and output of the box, and then coming up with a story to bridge the two. The story creation comes after you know the ending, though, not during. The process doesn't tell you how it happens, that's what you create after the fact. Or, in other words, a post-hoc rationalization. And there's nothing at all wrong with doing this -- so many game rely on this kind of narration! It's just a hard sell to say that the black box resolution, followed by post-hoc rationalization of the process should be called 'simulation.' This isn't an issue of granularity -- you can have very course simulations and very fine ones, but it's important to know what the process is to move between points and be able to analyze and tweak that process. There's not process in 5e skill resolutions (or attack actions) to tweak. We have no idea how you climb a cliff with the 5e resolution process, regardless of if we chunk the cliff up into 15 foot segments or 100 foot segments. No information comes from the resolution other than success/failure. Aces and Eights features a pretty simulationist version of gun combat, at least in the hit location procedures. That's actually a new definition I haven't seen in the thread. This very much argues against things you've said upthread, especially about systems with fixed target numbers. They're modeling the fictional world as well. I'm gonna bet there's a upcoming argument about how they aren't real fictional world modeler, though, as that's what happened last time. Some feature that isn't really about modelling the fictional world was identified and used to exclude it from the category. If only there were a term for such a claim... oh, well, it will come to me, I'm sure. It is, kinda, but I disagree with [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER] that there's no sim in 5e. The jumping rules are sim. We can tell that you can only jump as far as you can based on the raw strength you possess. It's not a great sim, but there's an understandable cause and effect relationship there. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
On simulating things: what, why, and how?
Top