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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8276058" data-attributes="member: 7023840">There was a reason I led with the particular quote I did- that was Arneson as player, but it was the same for him as DM; just because his rules were more ... ad hoc ... doesn't mean he wasn't engaging in skilled play. No. If you read the introduction to ToH, you see it spelled out quite clearly:THIS IS A THINKING PERSON'S MODULE, AND IF YOUR GROUP IS A HACK AND SLAY GATHERING, THEY WILL BE UNHAPPY. In the latter case, it is better to skip the whole thing than come out and tell them that there are few monsters. Or, perhaps, we can use what Gygax said here at enworld:The Tomb of Horrors was inspired by material sent to me by Alan Lucien, and I believe I have credited him in this regard, but it has been so many years I can not recall where and how. Anyway...The place was designed to test the mettle of the best players, stretch their ability to the maximum. That it did, while nor a few PCs belonging to very capable players bit the proverbial dust. Those players with real cran came back and kept trying until their PCs suceeded or else the DM grew weary of running the module. As I have mentioned, in my group only Rob Kuntz managed to get to the end of the advbenture, Robilar losing all of his orc flunkies at the onset, in the initial passage. When he found the tomb of the demi-lich Robilar scooped all the magical treasures he could into his bag of holding and ran off leaving the demi-lich hanginf, as it were. Tenser retreated from the perilous place, as did Terik.Of course Mordenkainen never entered the place, but had he, the wily wizard would surely have come with his most potent associates, and brought plenty of powerful magic along. As with most other dedicated players, I too am averse to losing my favirite and long-luved PC.Or ... maybe his thoughts on his own players ... It (a TPK) never happened with my regular group, but running tournaments and special games I have racked up a few TPKs. Let me rephrase that: The players have managed to get all their PCs killed<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />In the ToH those of my players who dared enter did it mainly with their PCs being alone save for hirelings. Robilar's use of his orcs is pretty well known, with all slain in the initial entrance, and he then going on alone to find the demi-lich's lair, grab the treasure and run away without any combat.With regards to being adversarial as you claim:BTW, when I am DMing AD&D, I tend to ignore rules that get in the wat of the flow of the game. When I have said so before an audience, there have always been some audience members who expressed shock, not to say horror and disbelief. I aon't a rules lawyer, and I believe my own advice--ignore and change as the DM sees fit to make the players' involvement intense and the game be a compelling experience.</blockquote>

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