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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8276970" data-attributes="member: 7023840">I appreciate the thoughtful response.I will address try to address your various points, but not necessarily in the order you raise them, just how I am thinking about them in reading your post.1. With regard to poker, it's an analogy. Which means that it is imperfect. I was using it only because there are those that do not understand the appeal of certain "old school" consequences in terms of "skilled play." In other words- no one likes or enjoys bad consequences, just as no one enjoys a "bad beat" in poker. But the joy that (some) people derive from poker is, in part, that there are stakes involved. The reason I was specifically using poker as the analogy is because it is generally acknowledged that in skilled play, it is still possible to have that "bad roll" or event that is beyond your control- skilled play is about stacking the odds in your favor.That said, other people could use the analogy regarding other modes of play. It was for illustrative purposes only regarding that point, not to say that poker is a TTRPG. It has nothing to do with making material inconsequential, or second-guessing the DM, or anything else.2. Yes, I do think that there are different modalities of play that engage the material in different ways. To ask the question, "can game world, game rules, metagame knowledge, and game materiel really be separated!?" is to answer it- yes, you just separated them! In fact, a number of different conversations are being had, constantly, about the ways that people can (and/or should) interact with a TTRPG and each other. Whether it's the age-old division of authority between players (and/or the DM), or issues dealing with lore and crunch, or the meta/character divide, or conversations about roleplaying/optimization, or the age-old, "Do defined abilities hinder or help a player choose actions," they are all fascinating conversations we have about the way that we are choosing to engage with the rules and with each other.* Put more simply, when you ask the question (assumedly rhetorically, and your answer would be no), you are stating a certain position regarding your preferred modality of play and how you would choose to interact with a TTRPG; essentially a design preference.Finally, I would end this already overly-long response by noting that the raison d'etre of my post was because I had noticed that this particular modality of play ("skilled play") was still an assumption that was being used behind a number of threads and conversations here, which is why I thought it would be interesting to have a specific thread about it for purposes of discussion.*Although presented as binaries here, most things are continuums.</blockquote>

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