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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8278941" data-attributes="member: 42582">What are the boundaries of impressionism? Or film noir? Or team-based ball sports?I think &quot;skilled play&quot; as a tradition in D&amp;D play has as much meaningfulness as any other label used for a particular tradition within a larger practice. Do you have a copy of Gygax's PHB, and if so have you read his discussion of &quot;Successful Adventures&quot;?The main effects of any player &quot;move&quot; in a RPG is a change in the shared fiction. That's what RPGing is about, most fundamentally. Sometimes the agreement of participants to change the fiction is driven by a mechanical process of resolution (&quot;The orc reaches zero hit points - it's dead!&quot;). Sometimes it is not (&quot;I walk across the room and open the door&quot;.)Burning Wheel says to the participants (1) &quot;say 'yes' or roll the dice&quot;, and (2) only say &quot;yes&quot; if its low or no stakes. So in BW there will be no agreed changes in stakes-laden fiction without a mechanical process - this is an express tenet of the game.Gygaxian D&amp;D rejects that tenet. As per [USER=51168]@MichaelSomething[/USER]'s post not far upthread, a Gygaxian GM should be saying &quot;yes&quot; whenever the logic of the fiction - which (unlike BW) is already authored by him/her in the form of map-and-key - dictates.As it happens I prefer (and its a very strong preference) BW to Gygaxian play. That preference rests on the fact that they are very different RPGing experiences, And the different approach to when the GM should say &quot;yes&quot; is a huge part of that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8278941, member: 42582"] What are the boundaries of impressionism? Or film noir? Or team-based ball sports? I think "skilled play" as a tradition in D&D play has as much meaningfulness as any other label used for a particular tradition within a larger practice. Do you have a copy of Gygax's PHB, and if so have you read his discussion of "Successful Adventures"? The main effects of any player "move" in a RPG is a change in the shared fiction. That's what RPGing is about, most fundamentally. Sometimes the agreement of participants to change the fiction is driven by a mechanical process of resolution ("The orc reaches zero hit points - it's dead!"). Sometimes it is not ("I walk across the room and open the door".) Burning Wheel says to the participants (1) "say 'yes' or roll the dice", and (2) only say "yes" if its low or no stakes. So in BW there will be no agreed changes in stakes-laden fiction without a mechanical process - this is an express tenet of the game. Gygaxian D&D rejects that tenet. As per [USER=51168]@MichaelSomething[/USER]'s post not far upthread, a Gygaxian GM should be saying "yes" whenever the logic of the fiction - which (unlike BW) is already authored by him/her in the form of map-and-key - dictates. As it happens I prefer (and its a [I]very [/I]strong preference) BW to Gygaxian play. That preference rests on the fact that they are very different RPGing experiences, And the different approach to when the GM should say "yes" is a huge part of that. [/QUOTE]

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