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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8279571" data-attributes="member: 82106">Is that really about any material difference, or is it only a distinction of quantity and not qualitative? I mean, FUNDAMENTALLY there's no difference, process-wise, in my mind between making a single Diplomacy check to convince the Court of Stars that you should be allowed to open the Terrible Door, vs a whole series of actions by the PCs, including or excluding any skill checks, which leads to the same thing. This is just 'level of detail'. The same core process is at work here. It isn't even that important if you have skills (or something similar) involved or not, it isn't materially different than if the GM said &quot;write 3 paragraphs on why the Terrible Door should be opened now&quot; and then he decides based on how he feels about that essay (and not to say this feeling won't be based on RPing the NPCs and considering whatever he thinks they know about what the situation he's devised is, but it is impossible to know really) VS &quot;make a Diplomacy check&quot;. I mean, sure, there's a very real difference in what the player did and thus his experience. In game process terms though, they are pretty much equivalent.So, all 3e's skill system CAN really do is change the tenor of the game. It isn't going to change the process, which is the same as it ever was in classic D&amp;D. So I don't believe in the systematic differences between say OD&amp;D and 3e in any deep way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8279571, member: 82106"] Is that really about any material difference, or is it only a distinction of quantity and not qualitative? I mean, FUNDAMENTALLY there's no difference, process-wise, in my mind between making a single Diplomacy check to convince the Court of Stars that you should be allowed to open the Terrible Door, vs a whole series of actions by the PCs, including or excluding any skill checks, which leads to the same thing. This is just 'level of detail'. The same core process is at work here. It isn't even that important if you have skills (or something similar) involved or not, it isn't materially different than if the GM said "write 3 paragraphs on why the Terrible Door should be opened now" and then he decides based on how he feels about that essay (and not to say this feeling won't be based on RPing the NPCs and considering whatever he thinks they know about what the situation he's devised is, but it is impossible to know really) VS "make a Diplomacy check". I mean, sure, there's a very real difference in what the player did and thus his experience. In game process terms though, they are pretty much equivalent. So, all 3e's skill system CAN really do is change the tenor of the game. It isn't going to change the process, which is the same as it ever was in classic D&D. So I don't believe in the systematic differences between say OD&D and 3e in any deep way. [/QUOTE]

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