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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8279690" data-attributes="member: 82106">OK, agenda is definitely another valid way to look at it. Of course that means we cannot really specifically state what is or is not Skilled Play in terms of actions and such. We would have to abstract play to the agenda, and then judge. Again though, there's always those factors of granularity, and lack of a fixed and fully defined fiction. Is it really not possible to say &quot;My agenda is that the players deploy clever and elegant fiction-based problem solving approaches&quot; incompatible with a player saying something like &quot;We will fight the orcs in the thrown room because otherwise they will be able to reinforce the dragon when we attack it, but the dragon doesn't care if we kill the orcs, he's arrogant and doesn't value them as allies.&quot; Isn't that equally engaging the fiction in a clever way to solve a problem? It is just more abstract in that (depending on how you use the combat system in AD&amp;D) it might elide some specific fiction and has a highly stochastic character. I think Skilled Play is like 'pornography, we know it when we see it.' You'll never be able to define it so you can say for sure that a given example of play is or is not clearly within its bounds.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8279690, member: 82106"] OK, agenda is definitely another valid way to look at it. Of course that means we cannot really specifically state what is or is not Skilled Play in terms of actions and such. We would have to abstract play to the agenda, and then judge. Again though, there's always those factors of granularity, and lack of a fixed and fully defined fiction. Is it really not possible to say "My agenda is that the players deploy clever and elegant fiction-based problem solving approaches" incompatible with a player saying something like "We will fight the orcs in the thrown room because otherwise they will be able to reinforce the dragon when we attack it, but the dragon doesn't care if we kill the orcs, he's arrogant and doesn't value them as allies." Isn't that equally engaging the fiction in a clever way to solve a problem? It is just more abstract in that (depending on how you use the combat system in AD&D) it might elide some specific fiction and has a highly stochastic character. I think Skilled Play is like 'pornography, we know it when we see it.' You'll never be able to define it so you can say for sure that a given example of play is or is not clearly within its bounds. [/QUOTE]

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