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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8281052" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Yeah, that was why 4e was such a breath of fresh air, because it simply reopened all those things to examination again. The rather ill-advised, IMHO, process of 5e stuffing them all back in the box again pretty much ended MY interest in D&D, as such. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, [USER=23751]@Maxperson[/USER] is attempting to build a case that this is all some cogent principle having to do with 'opposition', but I don't buy it. In fact it seems to me to be more geared towards engaging more of the material more reliably, and avoiding letting the players too easily decode solutions. You have to roll dice to fight, that makes fighting dangerous in an irreducible way! So it is something to avoid. If it was 'solved' without dice, then in effect it would become rote, either the goblin cannot be defeated, by your character at least, or else its defeat becomes simply a matter of saying the right thing, and that is either arbitrary (I lunge), or rote (I analyze his style for weaknesses and make the killing blow my experience indicates). OTOH rolling dice to see if you fell into the pit is no good, because YOU MIGHT NOT. If you have a 10' pole and use it, then there's some sort of fictional interaction with the pit, if you fall in, there's interaction, if you rolled a Perception check and avoided it, well, that was just color. Likewise with the searches, etc. It is just a factor of how much material the GM needs to generate in order to make things enough of a puzzle to achieve his agenda. This also works when you consider reaction rolls. If the PCs could simply pick up allies by saying the right thing, it would be A) arbitrary, and B) pretty quickly unravel the dungeon puzzle, since having 20 Orc allies would make things pretty easy (in level 1).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8281052, member: 82106"] Yeah, that was why 4e was such a breath of fresh air, because it simply reopened all those things to examination again. The rather ill-advised, IMHO, process of 5e stuffing them all back in the box again pretty much ended MY interest in D&D, as such. Anyway, [USER=23751]@Maxperson[/USER] is attempting to build a case that this is all some cogent principle having to do with 'opposition', but I don't buy it. In fact it seems to me to be more geared towards engaging more of the material more reliably, and avoiding letting the players too easily decode solutions. You have to roll dice to fight, that makes fighting dangerous in an irreducible way! So it is something to avoid. If it was 'solved' without dice, then in effect it would become rote, either the goblin cannot be defeated, by your character at least, or else its defeat becomes simply a matter of saying the right thing, and that is either arbitrary (I lunge), or rote (I analyze his style for weaknesses and make the killing blow my experience indicates). OTOH rolling dice to see if you fell into the pit is no good, because YOU MIGHT NOT. If you have a 10' pole and use it, then there's some sort of fictional interaction with the pit, if you fall in, there's interaction, if you rolled a Perception check and avoided it, well, that was just color. Likewise with the searches, etc. It is just a factor of how much material the GM needs to generate in order to make things enough of a puzzle to achieve his agenda. This also works when you consider reaction rolls. If the PCs could simply pick up allies by saying the right thing, it would be A) arbitrary, and B) pretty quickly unravel the dungeon puzzle, since having 20 Orc allies would make things pretty easy (in level 1). [/QUOTE]
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