Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8289450" data-attributes="member: 42582">My view is that 4e is what you get when you apply serious design principles - as in Robin Laws or Vincent Baker-level design - to both D&D tropes and the core D&D mechanics (ie class, level, AC, hp, fortune-in-the-middle saving throws).The resulting game is almost entirely free of the very modest simulationist veneer of AD&D that was given a new, neon coat of paint in 3E; and is a mechanically heavy system for delivering fairly light-hearted but pretty reliable heroic fantasy adventure.It's not Classic: there is almost no progression of PC power or of challenges (there's a little bit eg invisibility, flight, domination and stun only "come online" as PC level grows). Like HeroWars/Quest it relies on developments in the fiction to measure progression; the PCs change but only someone who thinks "if the numbers are bigger then we're having more fun" would think that there is any mechanical/system development in challenges. That's a fundamental difference from classic D&D, which relates back to posts I've made in reply to [USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER] explaining the significance of spells like Passwall and Teleport that remove whole categories of challenge from the game. 4e has almost none of that.In a group of players who ignore or fudge the more intricate mechanics, and don't use skill challenges, it could be approached as Trad with a lot of otiose mechanical elements. But played to it strengths I think it's a combo of Story Now and Neo-Trad: like Neo-Trad it has vibrant characters with a lot of control over PC theme and trajectory, but unlike Neo-Trad and like Story Now it doesn't need spotlight balance and in fact the system will get in the way of that and other Neo-Trad GMing techniques.I still think the best summary of 4e on these boards was posted by [USER=16586]@Campbell[/USER], years ago now:************************************My point is that nothing you say here is distinctive about "skilled play". Any RPG might not be enjoyed by some RPGers - eg why would a hardcore simulationist touch D&D with a 10' pole? They'd play RQ or RM or C&S if they're old-fashion. But does a post or thread about distinctive features of 5e D&D therefore need a reminder that you might want to replace hit points with a proper damage/wound system so the game has a chance of appleaing to all players?</blockquote>

Verification