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On Skilled Play: D&D as a Game
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8289876" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I certainly agree with your last sentence, and have posted much the same time two or three times recently.</p><p></p><p>(There is a very modest increase with level - in that the PC sheet gets harder to read and harder to play well - but that's pretty modest in the overall scheme of player-skill oriented RPGing.)</p><p></p><p>I think that, compared to (say) Prince Valiant or even B/X at least until you get to high-ish level MUs with complex spelll loadouts, 4e D&D does require a certain minimal investment of technical competence. We used to see this in threads complaining about "casual RPGers" who just want to be able to make a basic attack and don't want to have to engage with all the stuff on their sheets.</p><p></p><p>I also think 4e can be played with more or less of that technical skill both individually and as a group, especially in the context of combat resolution. And there is definitely scope to show off cleverness in doing that - I'm thinking, eg, of a time the invoker/wizard player in our game pulled out an intricate combo of familiar activation, limited-use abilities from various places, rerolls, etc to try and blast a cowering dragon out from its place of shelter beneath the PCs' flying tower. (It didn't work because all his dice came up very low despite about 3 rerolls.)</p><p></p><p>I also think it's a game where (contra some critics) fictional positioning matters to resolution.</p><p></p><p>But I agree with you that it's not very much like what Gygax et al were doing back in the mid-to-late 70s. And it's certainly not a game where you work out the play in such a way as to find yourself hosed time after time when you start, only to master things such that suddenly you're winning at every turn and the GM really has to amp things up to put pressure on you at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8289876, member: 42582"] I certainly agree with your last sentence, and have posted much the same time two or three times recently. (There is a very modest increase with level - in that the PC sheet gets harder to read and harder to play well - but that's pretty modest in the overall scheme of player-skill oriented RPGing.) I think that, compared to (say) Prince Valiant or even B/X at least until you get to high-ish level MUs with complex spelll loadouts, 4e D&D does require a certain minimal investment of technical competence. We used to see this in threads complaining about "casual RPGers" who just want to be able to make a basic attack and don't want to have to engage with all the stuff on their sheets. I also think 4e can be played with more or less of that technical skill both individually and as a group, especially in the context of combat resolution. And there is definitely scope to show off cleverness in doing that - I'm thinking, eg, of a time the invoker/wizard player in our game pulled out an intricate combo of familiar activation, limited-use abilities from various places, rerolls, etc to try and blast a cowering dragon out from its place of shelter beneath the PCs' flying tower. (It didn't work because all his dice came up very low despite about 3 rerolls.) I also think it's a game where (contra some critics) fictional positioning matters to resolution. But I agree with you that it's not very much like what Gygax et al were doing back in the mid-to-late 70s. And it's certainly not a game where you work out the play in such a way as to find yourself hosed time after time when you start, only to master things such that suddenly you're winning at every turn and the GM really has to amp things up to put pressure on you at all. [/QUOTE]
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