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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8290103" data-attributes="member: 82106">It is certainly intangible and you cannot actually demonstrate that it is shared or going on in everyone's heads, or that everyone exists, or that you exist, etc. I don't think shared fiction is really an abstraction though, it is just intangible. As such it is infinitely mutable and has no fixed character. I think we might consider whether this is part of the reason why process is so important in RPGs. So, let me make this a bit more concrete. What you are saying is that you see a strong parallel between, for example, invoking powers during combat turns in a 4e combat and deciding which moves to make, and then basically unleashing some 'kata' in effect that operationalizes that move? OK. I mean, I'm FAR FAR less deep into anything you can call martial arts, but sure, the concept is probably known to all. You do something 10,000 times and it becomes burned into your motor planning system. And sure, you do plan and make decisions in a melee. I know that is the normal experience in say sparring in SCA, or a Judo practice, which I've done (mostly many years ago I might add, but still).Still, yes, D&D combat is fairly abstract. I mean AD&D COMBAT, which was really what I was talking about, is PARTICULARLY abstract, with 1 minute rounds and whatnot. I mean, maybe it doesn't feel that abstract, but it is described that way. Clearly there IS a level of abstraction. I guess you can say "well, it feels like I can explain the D&D combat as well as I can an actual MA bout." OK. I mean, I'm not sure that really changes much. My analysis really has more to do with the profound difference, you roll dice in combat, classic D&D says "show me what you did" EVERYWHERE ELSE. So clearly there are different paradigms.Well, OK, this is a reasonable point, perhaps. I don't know. I think there's still a sense in which a D&D game is a commitment and its hard to just say "I'll play by someone else's agenda for the next year." Or maybe more practically, you DON'T play by someone else's agenda for a year, people resist that and end up playing their way, most of the time. Maybe that means some other group, whatever.</blockquote>

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