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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8291438" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>I feel like I must have very poorly spoken, or simply painted myself into a corner. I guess maybe I should just rethink some of this. I mean, at some level if you were playing 1e and doing classic dungeon delves, what is the point? If you survive, you're going to go on to level 2, etc. The character of the game WILL change eventually, which is a bit different from DW, but I guess you have to, at some level, just look at 'exercising skill in navigating the dungeon' as END IN AND OF ITSELF, and levels/gold/etc just being a signifier. I'd note that most games don't get explicated that way. In football it is stated that the goal of the game is to get the ball into the GOAL (pretty obvious name for that, huh!).</p><p></p><p>So, in terms of DW, if you say "the goal is to make what happens be about what you choose as a player." then OK, skill at doing that is essentially skill with handling the mechanics (and thus the fiction, since they are so linked) of DW.</p><p></p><p>However, I still feel like the goals of 'GSP' are more explicit and concrete. It is a LOT clearer whether or not you were successful. In a DW game leveling and XP don't really signify the same way. Higher level DW PCs aren't somehow 'better' really. They have more options, sure, but much like 4e, they don't really get 'more powerful' in some kind of objective sense. A level 10 B/X character is QUALITATIVELY different, you know you're playing level 10 and not level 3. You own a tower, you fight elder dragons and demons, which work differently from orcs, etc. There is a lot less of that sense in DW or 4e. Some, but less. It doesn't seem like the central thing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8291438, member: 82106"] I feel like I must have very poorly spoken, or simply painted myself into a corner. I guess maybe I should just rethink some of this. I mean, at some level if you were playing 1e and doing classic dungeon delves, what is the point? If you survive, you're going to go on to level 2, etc. The character of the game WILL change eventually, which is a bit different from DW, but I guess you have to, at some level, just look at 'exercising skill in navigating the dungeon' as END IN AND OF ITSELF, and levels/gold/etc just being a signifier. I'd note that most games don't get explicated that way. In football it is stated that the goal of the game is to get the ball into the GOAL (pretty obvious name for that, huh!). So, in terms of DW, if you say "the goal is to make what happens be about what you choose as a player." then OK, skill at doing that is essentially skill with handling the mechanics (and thus the fiction, since they are so linked) of DW. However, I still feel like the goals of 'GSP' are more explicit and concrete. It is a LOT clearer whether or not you were successful. In a DW game leveling and XP don't really signify the same way. Higher level DW PCs aren't somehow 'better' really. They have more options, sure, but much like 4e, they don't really get 'more powerful' in some kind of objective sense. A level 10 B/X character is QUALITATIVELY different, you know you're playing level 10 and not level 3. You own a tower, you fight elder dragons and demons, which work differently from orcs, etc. There is a lot less of that sense in DW or 4e. Some, but less. It doesn't seem like the central thing. [/QUOTE]
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