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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8291489" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Here is what I'll say on this.This is another common refrain I see about Dungeon World.  While I agree with the formulation "players overwhelmingly get better on the x axis while remaining relatively stable on the y axis" (I mean I've said those exact words more than a dozen times), I think there is a lot of meat left on that bone.  Here is the meat left on that bone:1)  A HUGE part of Skilled Play and the capacity for any given player (through their character) to wrest control of the gamestate from another participant at the table is located on the x axis.  I mentioned above how vital it is (and how essential to playing skillfully) to open up the move-space and/or control the fictional positioning.  As you increase in breadth of competence, you increase proportionately in your capacity to open up the move-space.  Its a feedback loop.  You're controlling play and wresting the gamestate more often from the GM by writ of your breadth of capacity to open up the move-space.  And that PC build based increase is amplified by (a) your personal (as a player) tactical creativity within that domain and (b) your ability to martial resources and call upon relationships/synergies to amplify your prospects of wresting the gamestate from another participant.2)  The gain on the y-axis is very much under-valued in these conversations because of the proportionality relationship with classic D&D (and how D&D handles monsters broadly and PCs at low levels).  A level 9 character has a not-insignificant increased chance of successful action resolution (especially in their thematic shtick).  And there are tangible amplifiers (suddenly you're getting take +1 forward when acting more often) and intangible amplifiers (you're controlling the move-space more often so you're putting yourself in better position to leverage strengths or mitigate weaknesses or even just to attack a problem at all) to these increases in your distribution of results.Further, some moves + the collection of other moves become extreeeeeeeemely powerful.  A Paladin with Impervious Defender + Ever Onward + Bloody Aegis + Cleric Spells and solid Charisma/Wisdom/Strength/Con?  A Fighter w/ 18 Str, 16 Wis, all the damage buffs, Interrogator, Seeing Red and Through Death's Eyes?  Mother of god.So while I agree broadly with the general sentiment of "the power curve vs the obstacles the PCs face in DW and 4e is very different than how that works out in Classic D&D", (a) the weight of that statement on the paradigm of Skilled Play doesn't move me and (b) there is more to be discussed than just leaving it at that.</blockquote>

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