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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
On Skilled Play: D&D as a Game
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8292873" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Clearstream, I like your post so let us keep it for future consideration...but we are both (a) way far afield (because you're unintentionally Calvinballing the initial example...fundamentally changing the initial parameters + adding/subtracting new elements with it) and (b) way downstream of what I'm trying to initially establish (note that in my first sentence I'm establishing this as "at the most primordial level"). I'm trying to establish 1st principles that we can agree upon for the most basic/foundational conception of Skilled Play possible and the most basic instantiation of that conception that would apply.</p><p></p><p>The "significant omissions" were by design. What you've done here is profoundly change the landscape and then move the ball well down the field after doing so, such that we can't even discuss the most basic/foundational conception of Skilled Play possible and the most basic instantiation of that conception.</p><p></p><p>Lets crawl before we walk before we run before we fly (off in many different directions). I'm not trying to create an analogy to TTRPGing. I'm trying to develop a basic unit of understanding. We can then build out and increase complexity from there (which we will have to do)...once we do that, your post will be helpful.</p><p></p><p>So back to my post, do you agree that the most basic/foundational conception of Skilled Play possible and the most basic instantiation of that conception is the above?</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Substrate for play (conditions/parameters that create a bound field-of-play w/ permissible moves)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Established win con/loss con</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Opposing parties navigating the substrate and move-space in attempt to make skillful moves of varying quality (composed as quantity in the example for ease-of-demonstration) against each other in attempt to achieve win/loss con.</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>EDIT - I don't recall precisely what I was setting out in the "discuss Win Cons" post in the other thread...but I did do a post in this thread about Dungeon World Win Cons and skilled play (there were 4 of them). <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/on-skilled-play-d-d-as-a-game.680080/post-8290752" target="_blank">Its post 493 here. </a>If you're going to respond to that/critique it, please do it separately from responding to this particular post so the conversation doesn't get muddled. Please and thank you!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8292873, member: 6696971"] Clearstream, I like your post so let us keep it for future consideration...but we are both (a) way far afield (because you're unintentionally Calvinballing the initial example...fundamentally changing the initial parameters + adding/subtracting new elements with it) and (b) way downstream of what I'm trying to initially establish (note that in my first sentence I'm establishing this as "at the most primordial level"). I'm trying to establish 1st principles that we can agree upon for the most basic/foundational conception of Skilled Play possible and the most basic instantiation of that conception that would apply. The "significant omissions" were by design. What you've done here is profoundly change the landscape and then move the ball well down the field after doing so, such that we can't even discuss the most basic/foundational conception of Skilled Play possible and the most basic instantiation of that conception. Lets crawl before we walk before we run before we fly (off in many different directions). I'm not trying to create an analogy to TTRPGing. I'm trying to develop a basic unit of understanding. We can then build out and increase complexity from there (which we will have to do)...once we do that, your post will be helpful. So back to my post, do you agree that the most basic/foundational conception of Skilled Play possible and the most basic instantiation of that conception is the above? [LIST] [*]Substrate for play (conditions/parameters that create a bound field-of-play w/ permissible moves) [*]Established win con/loss con [*]Opposing parties navigating the substrate and move-space in attempt to make skillful moves of varying quality (composed as quantity in the example for ease-of-demonstration) against each other in attempt to achieve win/loss con. [/LIST] EDIT - I don't recall precisely what I was setting out in the "discuss Win Cons" post in the other thread...but I did do a post in this thread about Dungeon World Win Cons and skilled play (there were 4 of them). [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/on-skilled-play-d-d-as-a-game.680080/post-8290752']Its post 493 here. [/URL]If you're going to respond to that/critique it, please do it separately from responding to this particular post so the conversation doesn't get muddled. Please and thank you! [/QUOTE]
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