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On Skilled Play: D&D as a Game
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8295169" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>If I'm reading this correctly (willing to be corrected), I think I have a few thoughts/issues/concerns:</p><p></p><p>1) The alternative to the first paragraph is two-fold:</p><p></p><p>a) The "handicapped" perspective. I'm obliged to "stay on theme/premise", therefore my cognitive workspace and movespace is <em>artificially </em>(with respect to tactial/strategic relevance of moves made) rendered more difficult to effectively deploy. This is [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER] 's position on the low level AD&D Wizard (in contrast with a 5e counterpart) except that Wizard's move space is constrained by the system architecture of level and rationed capability (rather than thematic/premise coherence).</p><p></p><p>b) Simultaneous to that "handicap" that I'm working with, I'm also incentivized via carrot to engage with/express thematic material. Therefore, I'm looking to "work the fiction (which includes interaction with my own movespace)" in order to achieve said carrot (in the kinds of games I'm talking about that means xp rewards and advancements). If this "working of the fiction" includes intentionally harming my PC (eg failure = xp and/or complications = opportunities to deploy resources on other moves), now I have to work out the "how am I going to overcome the complications that are arresting my control of the trajectory of the gamestate" aspect of the equation. If this doesn't include a particular form of Skilled Play (a form that Gygaxian Skilled Play does not engage with), then I'm not sure what we would call it.</p><p></p><p>2) The following idea "an actual human being who treats emotional parameters as further points of optimisation, rather than as markers of salience that narrow the decision-space, is probably a sociopath" is particularly controversial by my reckoning for a few reasons:</p><p></p><p>a) Every time you make a particularly type of "self-complicating" move in many Narrativist games (whether that be accepting/setting up a failure in BW/TB/DW or deploying a complicating Trait/Relationship/Thing in Dogs or accepting/denying a Devil's Bargain or "jumping on a thematic <em>grenade</em>" in Blades to earn xp), you're engaging (to whatever degree) with the cognitive workspace of optimization/advancement + thematic heft. Deciding to not accept a thematically awesome/appropriate Devil's Bargain in Blades because the complication is "a bit too rough at this present moment" is neither thematically degenerate nor is it a reflection of the player's neuro-endocrine system failing to respond to a stimuli. </p><p></p><p>b) My opinion is that habitation of PC is a varied experience. Maybe one moment you're sensing you're looking through the PC's eyes...maybe the next you're watching them from a vantage...perhaps you're even looking at them in this particular moment through your constructed conceptual lens of another character in the shared imagined space (as we do in real life)...maybe you're doing one or more at the same time...but (unless its Pawn Stance play), hopefully you're feeling some aspect of their cognitive and/or emotional space regardless of whether you're pivoting between perspectives or inhabiting multiple states simultaneously.</p><p></p><p>Humans in real life manipulate each other routinely (even people positioned to express "unconditional love" like parents to children). There are many reasons for this manipulation (some of it functional), but in a huge swath of that manipulation, it (i) engages with the emotional reservoir of one or both parties and (ii) it engages with optimizing/facilitating one trajectory or another (such as the trajectory of a child/ward/charge/partner's life)...which may or may not simultaneously coincide with the optimization/facilitation of one's own life.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8295169, member: 6696971"] If I'm reading this correctly (willing to be corrected), I think I have a few thoughts/issues/concerns: 1) The alternative to the first paragraph is two-fold: a) The "handicapped" perspective. I'm obliged to "stay on theme/premise", therefore my cognitive workspace and movespace is [I]artificially [/I](with respect to tactial/strategic relevance of moves made) rendered more difficult to effectively deploy. This is [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER] 's position on the low level AD&D Wizard (in contrast with a 5e counterpart) except that Wizard's move space is constrained by the system architecture of level and rationed capability (rather than thematic/premise coherence). b) Simultaneous to that "handicap" that I'm working with, I'm also incentivized via carrot to engage with/express thematic material. Therefore, I'm looking to "work the fiction (which includes interaction with my own movespace)" in order to achieve said carrot (in the kinds of games I'm talking about that means xp rewards and advancements). If this "working of the fiction" includes intentionally harming my PC (eg failure = xp and/or complications = opportunities to deploy resources on other moves), now I have to work out the "how am I going to overcome the complications that are arresting my control of the trajectory of the gamestate" aspect of the equation. If this doesn't include a particular form of Skilled Play (a form that Gygaxian Skilled Play does not engage with), then I'm not sure what we would call it. 2) The following idea "an actual human being who treats emotional parameters as further points of optimisation, rather than as markers of salience that narrow the decision-space, is probably a sociopath" is particularly controversial by my reckoning for a few reasons: a) Every time you make a particularly type of "self-complicating" move in many Narrativist games (whether that be accepting/setting up a failure in BW/TB/DW or deploying a complicating Trait/Relationship/Thing in Dogs or accepting/denying a Devil's Bargain or "jumping on a thematic [I]grenade[/I]" in Blades to earn xp), you're engaging (to whatever degree) with the cognitive workspace of optimization/advancement + thematic heft. Deciding to not accept a thematically awesome/appropriate Devil's Bargain in Blades because the complication is "a bit too rough at this present moment" is neither thematically degenerate nor is it a reflection of the player's neuro-endocrine system failing to respond to a stimuli. b) My opinion is that habitation of PC is a varied experience. Maybe one moment you're sensing you're looking through the PC's eyes...maybe the next you're watching them from a vantage...perhaps you're even looking at them in this particular moment through your constructed conceptual lens of another character in the shared imagined space (as we do in real life)...maybe you're doing one or more at the same time...but (unless its Pawn Stance play), hopefully you're feeling some aspect of their cognitive and/or emotional space regardless of whether you're pivoting between perspectives or inhabiting multiple states simultaneously. Humans in real life manipulate each other routinely (even people positioned to express "unconditional love" like parents to children). There are many reasons for this manipulation (some of it functional), but in a huge swath of that manipulation, it (i) engages with the emotional reservoir of one or both parties and (ii) it engages with optimizing/facilitating one trajectory or another (such as the trajectory of a child/ward/charge/partner's life)...which may or may not simultaneously coincide with the optimization/facilitation of one's own life. [/QUOTE]
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