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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8295950" data-attributes="member: 42582">One consequence of the &quot;canonical&quot; ethos, which I really think has held back D&amp;D (not commercially, but in my view from a &quot;creative&quot; perspective) is that so much adjudication that was an output of Gygax et al's process of play gets presented as input for everyone else's play. So we get a version of what Ron Edwards (in a slightly different context) calls &quot;karaoke RPGing&quot;.While 3E systematised, it also doubled down on the idea of rules and rulings as input.One thing I like about 4e D&amp;D and BW and Prince Valiant - otherwise very different systems! - is that they tend to eschew karaoke. There are systematised mechanics, and there are examples provided of how those mechanics might be operationalised, but the game participants are invited and expected to bring their own creativity to bear in answering questions like how stealthy, really, is a high level thief when trying to sneak past Heimdall or what approach might I use to avoid falling into that pit that just magically appeared a yard or two in front of me as I flee from the frost giants? I don't know DW as well as the other systems I mentioned, but it seems to also eschew karaoke.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8295950, member: 42582"] One consequence of the "canonical" ethos, which I really think has held back D&D (not commercially, but in my view from a "creative" perspective) is that so much [I]adjudication that was an output of Gygax et al's process of play[/I] gets presented as [I]input[/I] for everyone else's play. So we get a version of what Ron Edwards (in a slightly different context) calls "karaoke RPGing". While 3E systematised, it also doubled down on the idea of rules and rulings as [I]input[/I]. One thing I like about 4e D&D and BW and Prince Valiant - otherwise very different systems! - is that they tend to eschew karaoke. There are systematised mechanics, and there are examples provided of how those mechanics might be operationalised, but the game participants are invited and expected to bring their own creativity to bear in answering questions like [I]how stealthy, really, is a high level thief when trying to sneak past Heimdall [/I]or [I]what approach might I use to avoid falling into that pit that just magically appeared a yard or two in front of me as I flee from the frost giants?[/I] I don't know DW as well as the other systems I mentioned, but it seems to also eschew karaoke. [/QUOTE]

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