Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Million Dollar TTRPG Crowdfunders
Most Anticipated Tabletop RPGs Of The Year
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
On taking power away from the DM
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Reynard" data-source="post: 3790456" data-attributes="member: 467"><p>As someone who believes this to be the case, I'll give you my opinion on the matter, which i am sure is nowhere enar universal.</p><p></p><p>The bogeyman of "DM fiat" crops up in D&D discussions -- on messageboards, in person, now and as far back as the old Dragon forum section -- and generally used in a negative manner. It suggests that DM "power" -- the responsibility to interpret the rules, the ability to say both "yes" and "no", and the final arbiter of what happens at the table -- will inevitably lead to corruption, as the old saying goes.</p><p></p><p>The best way to combat this, as shown through the entire life of D&D, not just 3E or 4E, has been twofold. First, codifying more and more aspects of the game into rules, to cover more and more scenarios and circumstances, reduced DM power and therefore his/her ability to mistreat the players and their characters because players, particularly rules lawyers types, can point out in the rule book that the DM is doing it "wrong". if there isn't a rule in the book to cover a situation, or if the rules are vague or the book gives a "rule" that is explicitely a suggestion -- as is often the case in the AD&D 1E DMG -- the DM maintains his "power" to determine the situation, the chances of success or whatever else is important and fun about the situation.</p><p></p><p>The other method by which DM power is reduced is through the ever increasing choices available to the players in building characters. It isn't that options are bad, or even that certain options might be "broken" or "overpowered" (that's a separate issue). And options by themselves wouldn't be particularly troublesome. But most "options" available to players are exceptions to the aforementioned ever expanding set of rules. By codifying a process or type of action, and then providing a method for a PC to take extra advantage of those codified rules, the Dm is put in the position of having to go farther to challenge the PC (note that the difference between challenging the players vs. their PCs is an associated issue, but not necessarily directly related to DMs losing "power").</p><p></p><p>Of course, DM's are free to limit options allowed in their campaigns. In theory, anyway. But when a game's publication schedule is dominated by player-oriented material -- as 3E's has been throughout its life -- the game-culture becomes such that these new options are directed at players, who buy the books and therefore "should" have access to the material.</p><p></p><p>Obviosuly, neither of these issues are universal and social contracts, trust and shared responsibilities for everyone elses' fun can mitigate these things. but if any of those mitigating factors is wanting, trouble can ensue. The worst I ever experienced was when a player in a high level 3.5 game was enraged because the BBEG's method of tracking and attacking the party wasn't something directly out of the DMG that could be countered by some other codified PC tools. I had committed the crime of "making stuff up" which, to my mind, is the DM's right and responsibility.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Reynard, post: 3790456, member: 467"] As someone who believes this to be the case, I'll give you my opinion on the matter, which i am sure is nowhere enar universal. The bogeyman of "DM fiat" crops up in D&D discussions -- on messageboards, in person, now and as far back as the old Dragon forum section -- and generally used in a negative manner. It suggests that DM "power" -- the responsibility to interpret the rules, the ability to say both "yes" and "no", and the final arbiter of what happens at the table -- will inevitably lead to corruption, as the old saying goes. The best way to combat this, as shown through the entire life of D&D, not just 3E or 4E, has been twofold. First, codifying more and more aspects of the game into rules, to cover more and more scenarios and circumstances, reduced DM power and therefore his/her ability to mistreat the players and their characters because players, particularly rules lawyers types, can point out in the rule book that the DM is doing it "wrong". if there isn't a rule in the book to cover a situation, or if the rules are vague or the book gives a "rule" that is explicitely a suggestion -- as is often the case in the AD&D 1E DMG -- the DM maintains his "power" to determine the situation, the chances of success or whatever else is important and fun about the situation. The other method by which DM power is reduced is through the ever increasing choices available to the players in building characters. It isn't that options are bad, or even that certain options might be "broken" or "overpowered" (that's a separate issue). And options by themselves wouldn't be particularly troublesome. But most "options" available to players are exceptions to the aforementioned ever expanding set of rules. By codifying a process or type of action, and then providing a method for a PC to take extra advantage of those codified rules, the Dm is put in the position of having to go farther to challenge the PC (note that the difference between challenging the players vs. their PCs is an associated issue, but not necessarily directly related to DMs losing "power"). Of course, DM's are free to limit options allowed in their campaigns. In theory, anyway. But when a game's publication schedule is dominated by player-oriented material -- as 3E's has been throughout its life -- the game-culture becomes such that these new options are directed at players, who buy the books and therefore "should" have access to the material. Obviosuly, neither of these issues are universal and social contracts, trust and shared responsibilities for everyone elses' fun can mitigate these things. but if any of those mitigating factors is wanting, trouble can ensue. The worst I ever experienced was when a player in a high level 3.5 game was enraged because the BBEG's method of tracking and attacking the party wasn't something directly out of the DMG that could be countered by some other codified PC tools. I had committed the crime of "making stuff up" which, to my mind, is the DM's right and responsibility. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
On taking power away from the DM
Top