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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 3793600" data-attributes="member: 2268">Did he buy the book from me? Yes? Then he can rightfully expect me to incorporate my own product into my campaign, or smack me around the ears with it because I sold him something useless (assuming the same limited group).As long as he didn't, why do you think should he get to "expect" me to find a way to allow its use? I mean, seriously...why? Did he come up to me and go "Say, I'm planning to get this or that book tomorrow, because I'd love to use that PrC I've seen in a preview, is there any chance you would incorporate that into your game?"...because coming up to me after the purchase, waving a bill and going "Hey, I bought this, I think it's cool, I want to use it, so allow it already" is just going to get him a "You want to use it, you start your own game" as a first response. People like to state that D&D is a cooperative game...which is true. But then I do expect some cooperation from the player's side when he wants to integrate some of his ideas into my campaign, at least more than "But I shelled out $35 for it, and it's from WotC so it's OK, what's your problem?" that I read here and there in such discussions.Of course (and it's weird this should have to be added in the first place), it all depends on HOW a player comes up to me, how he phrases his request, and how well the stuff he bought actually fits in my campaign world. Every D&D game is a bit of a give 'n' take thing...and usually, players should have a good idea about what fits in a campaign, and what not. But for some reason there is ALWAYS that one guy who thinks just because you agreed to one thing brought in from outside, you must agree to EVERYthing, including some obscure, unbalanced and overpowered class/PrC he found in some small D20 publisher's product...and who raises a big hullabaloo if you don't. And we all know how vocal minorities work. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> But basically, that's part of what some posters here are talking about...the expectations of players who bought something from some D20 publisher that their DM should automatically let them use it, and the whining that happens when you simply say "No". That expectation wasn't as much there as long as mist stuff was marketed and aimed at DMs instead of at players...it was mostly the DM bringing in completely new material into the campaign. Or maybe that's just me, but I can remember the players in our group pitching in with a few bucks to get our DM a new supplement for his b-day or whenever, hoping he'll use it in our game next time. Is how I got my first D&D Gazetteer The Grand Duchy of Karameikos, at least. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> The same goes, by the way, for the bitching you get when you tell some players "Yeah, I KNOW how the rule works in the PHB, but I'm changing it for this scenario, and no I don't think we should spend the next 2 hours to discuss why, how it impacts the rest of the rules, and what's the greater reason behind my change...just frelling ROLL that d20!" Not that you got less bitching in earlier editions...but with 3.X, players simply got a very solid foundation for their complaints and arguments when it came to countermand a DM decision. It effectively created a discussion floor that every uncodified DM's decision can be dragged out to be dissected...and a lot of players like to do so. Which simply cuts into gaming time, in the worst case, and creates a lot of DMs who simply don't want to bother actually thinking about the underlying rules anymore, or about how to improvise an especially complicated scene in order to keep it flowing, and just run them "by the book"...or not at all. In my area, one DM has switched to WHFRP 1E because his players got on his nerves too much, another is struggling with the fact that he tries to play 3.X by the book but keeps falling over some obscure rule he forgot, and a third simply went to HARP. Personally, I found that players actually change their behaviour from game to game...the same folks that are a nightmare in D&D 3E are managable in Shadowrun, for example, where most of the finer rules details are left to GM interpretation.Of course, YMMV. And it most certainly will. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></blockquote>

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