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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sailor Moon" data-source="post: 6472990" data-attributes="member: 6776331">I can't believe you people are still going on about this. I'm going to discuss a few things and hopefully will bring this argument to an end.First of all, Gary Gygax is no longer with us so we will never ever know exactly what he meant in those earlier editions with regards to HP.Now, some of you have been banging on about 4th edition and how it supposedly better represented HP. Well I'm afraid it is actually the worst edition to handle HP and I will tell you why.1st: Let's look at what the PHB says about Hit Points. Over the course of a battle, you take damage from attacks. Hit points (hp) measure your ability to stand up to punishment, turn deadly strikes into glancing blows, and stay on your feet throughout a battle. Hit points represent more than physical endurance. They represent your character’s skill, luck, and resolve—all the factors that combine to help you stay alive in a combat situation.Hmmmm looks to me like we have a bit of vague wording here when it says "Hit points represent more than just physical endurance". As you can see there is no ratio here as to what the physical part is and what the rest is. Okay let's move on. Healing Surges: Well the book doesn't actually tell you in game what they represent but they allow you to heal injuries and even powers that would actually heal physical injuries, cause the character to act as if they spent a healing surge even though you don't spend the surge. This would lead one to believe that the healing surges take care of "all" types of injury etc.... Also the fact that you can go from negatives and unconscious to back to full health by using them. Clearly HP is more than just luck and dodging and that healing surges are in fact, magical in nature.There is no point in actually having armour if we look at other mechanics such as damage on a miss. I though missing was where the character actually dodged, or managed to deflect the hit, or the armour stops it. But then we have HP loss that can be described as missing but somehow the person was winded etc... See how the inconsistencies start to emerge? Different damage for different weapons: What's the point in this if weapons aren't really actually hitting anyone? If we go by the logic then most damage would be the same number. Why would a "hit" but described as not really making contact but making the person winded from a greatsword cause more damage than a dagger if neither weapon is actually hitting? Again, more and more inconsistencies emerge. Using strength to do more damage: Again, what is the point in this? Strength has to do with physical power and if most HP is not meat then this is pointless and makes no sense. Let's look at a few powers:Steel Serpent Strike Fighter Attack 1You stab viciously at your foe’s knee or foot to slow him down. Nomatter how tough he is, he’s going to favor that leg for a time.Encounter ✦ Martial, WeaponStandard Action Melee weaponTarget: One creatureAttack: Strength vs. ACHit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target isslowed and cannot shift until end of your next turn.Obviously it's a physical blow according to the description and yet you can fully heal it using Healing Surges.Armor-Piercing Thrust Fighter Attack 3You drive your weapon through a weak point in your foe’sdefenses.Encounter ✦ Martial,WeaponStandard Action Melee weaponTarget: One creatureAttack: Strength vs. ReflexWeapon: If you’re wielding a light blade or a spear, you gaina bonus to the attack roll equal to your Dexterity modifier.Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.Weapon: If you’re wielding a light blade or a spear, you gaina bonus to the damage roll equal to your Dexterity modifier.Again, another example of the weapon making contact and doing physical damage. Piercing Strike Rogue Attack 1A needle-sharp point slips past armor and into tender flesh.At-Will ✦ Martial, WeaponStandard Action Melee weaponRequirement: You must be wielding a light blade.Target: One creatureAttack: Dexterity vs. ReflexHit: 1[W] + Dexterity modifier damage.Increase damage to 2[W] + Dexterity modifier at 21st level.Need I say more?Blinding Barrage Rogue Attack 1A rapid barrage of projectiles leaves your enemies clearing theblood from their eyes.Daily ✦ Martial,WeaponStandard Action Close blast 3Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow, a lightthrown weapon, or a sling.Target: Each enemy in blast you can seeAttack: Dexterity vs. ACHit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and the target isblinded until the end of your next turn.Miss: Half damage, and the target is not blinded.You draw blood so it's obviously a physical hit. So there we have it. 4th edition is a numbers game where the numbers work well together, but when you start adding in the narrative and description of the mechanics it becomes an absolute mess of inconsistencies. One of the reasons I didn't enjoy the game and that edition doesn't do HP well at all.</blockquote>

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