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Message: <blockquote data-quote="shilsen" data-source="post: 4024013" data-attributes="member: 198">Very easily. By arguing that you can have the possibility of death in the game but it isn't an integral and important part of D&D. I would argue that the use of Magic Missile isn't an integral and important part of D&D. That doesn't mean I'm arguing that Magic Missile shouldn't be in the game. I'm just saying that it's not a very important part of the game and the game could work without it. It's not that subtle a distinction. That's a pretty simplistic and inaccurate depiction of the position for many of the death-lite (I'm beginning to really like that term) folks. From what I've read of your position thus far, I'd say the above is just as applicable to your position. After all, going by what you've said before, the story is not just about the chosen set of PCs, and if PCs die they can either be raised or replaced by new PCs. Right? If the story continues, that means that any defeat must be strictly temporary, since some PCs will pick up and keep on trucking. If a PC dies and isn't raised, his brother or friend or someone else will just replace him in the group, so the loss is hardly final. And since you refer to players and not characters, it's even more certain that they're going to have another chance. After all, unless you boot a player when his PC dies, he's just going to get another PC to play with. So no consequence is final. In fact, from the sounds of it, even a TPK for the entire group will not be a total defeat, since another group of PCs will magically appear to continue the good fight. Even though I do run a death-lite game, if we're talking about final consequences, there's a whole lot more on the table than under your system. While death for individual PCs is very rare, there's the possibility of them all going down and a TPK could happen. In the last dozen sessions, they've had at least two near-TPKs. And if a TPK happens, that's it, as far as this campaign is concerned. There are no replacement PCs and there's no cavalry coming over the hill. Because the PCs are truly special in this game and include some of the most powerful people on the planet, and many of the things they are involved with are such that only they can deal with them, it's all up to them. And if they lose, so does the planet. And even outside that big possibility, they've already had significant consequences happen in the game for which there is no redress and which will drastically - and negatively - impact the future of millions of people and the campaign setting as a whole.For my edification, could you provide an example of situations in your game where players have had a final consequence which cannot be redressed and which PC deaths played an important part in? Naturally, PC death cannot be a final consequence in and of itself if the PC can be raised or the player gets another PC to run, so I'd like to see something more than that, and in view of this thread and your comments, I'd like to see how PC death played into it.</blockquote>

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