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Message: <blockquote data-quote="shilsen" data-source="post: 4025072" data-attributes="member: 198">I'm not surprised. But since the definition of final consequences, especially with regard to a game like D&D, is mostly a matter of taste and semantics, that hardly matters. As I indicated, everyone will define final consequences in their own way, so arguments based on some sort of Platonic final consequences (and the idea that death is some kind of special consequence has been bandied about constantly in this thread) have little validity.In view of the above, it seems a little unnecessary, IMNSHO, to fetishize death in the game as something special. After all, it seems you can conceive of lots of (to you) final consequences that don't involve death. So arguing that death is particularly important seems a little unnecessary. And comments like the one I quoted, namely: also seem unnecessary, since clearly it's possible that one can not be killed by the BBEG and still be defeated or face some, as you put it, final consequences. In short, it seems like you're arguing at cross purposes and contradicting yourself at various points in the thread. Looking at the examples you provided above, that seems a gross simplification. 3.xe mitigates against "the destruction of an artifact" or the "loss of loved ones who cannot be simply raised" or "events that forever change the way important NPCs see you, for better or worse"? Really? I must be reading a very different rulebook to you.</blockquote>

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