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Message: <blockquote data-quote="catastrophic" data-source="post: 4923775" data-attributes="member: 81381">You know there's a three colum page full of small print playtester credits at the back of the phb, right? And that they were openly stating that they used late 3e products and feedback from them as part of the 4e design? And they used the RPGA for a great deal of playtesting? And they've been doing playtest releases of classes? I guess WOTC's evil closed playtest system is going to be a new element in the rich mythology of 4e-hate. Frankly I don't think you can hold the pazio playtest up as some kind of exemplar, from what I heard, the playtesters actually opposed efforts to make the fighter more powerful. And then there's the fact that they boasted about having tens of thousands of playtesters, based purely on how many people downloaded the free pdf. I mean, I'd be pretty happy if that many people downloaded a free pdf I put out, but it doesn't mean they're all playtesting it. If somebody was looking for excuses to slag off pazio's testing process, they could find plenty. But they'renot- people are willing to give them a fair go.  Plenty of people are looking for excuses for slag off WOTC- and it's not like there aren't valid cricisms to be made again them- but all too often people reach into pure fantasy in the process.</blockquote>