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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Trolls" data-source="post: 5920354" data-attributes="member: 60798">Having read the playtest documents, particularly the bestiary and adventure, I'm seeing a problem in monster design that seems fairly fundamental to the game.Another issue brought up with monsters on this forum (spell lists in stat blocks) is largely (but not entirely) a formatting issue, so I don't fundamentally have a problem with that. Its something that can almost certainly be worked out through playtesting and formatting once the rules are finalised.The problem I have is closer to the fundamental philosophy the designers have taken to this initial run at monster design, so I think the sooner we have this discussion the better. The issue I think is two-fold:-Mundane, non-spellcasting monsters in particular have been relegated to having nothing but weapon attacks, or a sneak-attack-esque bonus damage.-No attention has been paid to the roles a monster might take in combat.This isn't simply an issue of installing a grid-tactics module, since nothing prevents giving interesting abilities to monsters that don't require a grid.To illustrate the point, let's compare some basic, 1st level encounters with kobolds between Next and 4E.Next: Take the chieftain room, A5, on page 7 of the Caves of Chaos.-5 kobolds-1 chieftain4E:A typical encounter might include:-2x Kobold Slingers (artillery)-8x Kobold Minions (skirmisher minion)-1x Kobold Dragonshield (soldier)In Next, the encounter from the DM's side of the screen is just a series of attacks. Even the chieftain is just a larger bag of hit points and a second attack. He doesn't feel like he's leading his crew while he fights, he doesn't feel like he's commanding authority, he's just stronger. The dragonshields in other encounters are a nice exception.In 4E, there are a much largely variety of interactions between kobolds and PCs, and many of them aren't even reliant on the grid. I have the option to chuck sticky pots to slow down my opponents, set them on fire, stink up the place to grant "disadvantage", interpose a defender to protect the weak and so on. The monsters feel like they have a place in the society as well as a place in the fight. The leaders (wyrmpriests) even have an ability to incite their allies to bravery. Then there's "Shifty", the defining power of kobolds. It gives them a clear, shared identity in a fight which is also clear to the PCs. Obviously for grid-less combat Shifty would have to change (perhaps disadvantage against them after they move?), but it can be done for Next.I can see some attempts have been made to test more complex encounter ideas, such as the gnoll pack lord, elite kobold (dragonshield), medusa, hobgoblin warlord and orc chieftain, but the take-away message from this post is that those examples should be the norm, not the exception. Mooks need love too! On the other end of the spectrum, the ogre needs serious attention - why not add some knock back/down or sweeping blows?The 4E model of encounter design is one of the edition's best contributions. Let's not let it fall to the wayside because it's a little more complex. A little bit of complexity adds a lot more fun.</blockquote>

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