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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5082698" data-attributes="member: 4937">I have repeatedly stated this position in private conversations with moderators that if the moderators persist in using moderator accounts to engage in debate, conversation, and other ordinary activities, that they cannot be terribly surprised that there is not an immediate recognition that a moderator is commenting on a thread or post in a moderator role. To be perfectly frank, I seldom bother to glance to the side to see who is posting what.  The use of avatars helps somewhat, but I don't always even look for the avatars as I read down a thread.   And sometimes, when I do glance to see who is posting what, it is entirely to follow the single thread of conversation that interests me and I completely skim over what everyone else in the thread is saying.   There have been times when I persisted in posting to a thread after a moderator warned me against doing so, when the simple fact was I didn't even realize in the avalanche of posts a moderator was involved.  I'm probably one of the ones responcible for the 'red text'.I personally feel that using a bright red font is necessary but utterly insufficient in this regard.  I have previously held moderator authority elsewhere and when I did, I was not allowed to:a) Post, debate, or discuss issues when wearing my moderator face.  b) Publically reveal that I was a moderator or otherwise associate my moderator account with a user account.c) Directly intervene and 'mod stomp' in a discussion where I was acting as a user.  If a conversation I was a part of got out of hand, I'd ask another mod to intervene.  If another user had a problem and reported me, they could do so without fear of bias because they had no idea that I was a moderator.  This also has the upshot that one moderator can moderate another moderator without publicly injuring his authority.The reason people feel that moderators have persona's is that at EnWorld they do have personas.  Moderators are not impersonal agents, but have names like 'Umbran' and 'PirateCat' and 'Darkness' and whoever.  'Umbran' is a person with a personality and known likes and dislikes.  'Umbran' can't very well pretend to not have a personality and to be objective when he's going to 90% of the time demonstrate one.  'Umbran' can't very well pretend that he's not an equal, when 90% of the time he posts as one.  While you can pretend that moderators don't have personas because the rules forbid moderation to be commented on, I happen to know that the personas of moderators are extensively discussed elsewhere.You can't have it both ways.  You either are a moderator all the time, in which case every statement you make is from a moderator stance and is therefore the official voice of EnWorld and does not allow for contridiction or reply, or else you are not a moderator all the time and therefore some of the time you are just spouting like the rest of us and it may be treated just like anyone else's and some of the time your voice has special authority which no one else can pretend to.  Either I can reply to some of your posts, or else I can't.  You can't pretend that there isn't a distinguishment between posts I can reply to and those that I can't.As for the analogies:"EN World is in many ways like a large social gathering in Morrus' apartment."No, it's nothing like a large social gathering in Morrus's apartment except for the fact that in both cases Morrus is the host and owner.  In large social gatherings, you don't usually employ bouncers and censors to control the guests.  EnWorld is in this way much more like a large social gathering at Morrus's bar.  Except that, at 'Morrus Place', the bouncers wear plain clothes and drink and dance when on duty, and then are surprised and offended when they discover that this makes their job as bouncers more difficult.Now, generally, the mods here do a good enough job and the users here are respectful enough (you might not think so, but really, this is a good crowd) that its not a problem.  So, if the administration of the site doesn't want to panic and change the rules that have largely worked for going on 10 years now (with the exception in my opinion of one 3-4 month period), then I fully understand.  But pretending that moderators don't have persona's and pretending that the decision to allow moderator accounts to act like ordinary users doesn't have consquences, won't make it so.</blockquote>

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