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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tonguez" data-source="post: 327053" data-attributes="member: 1125">I will try and not make this sound like a sermon so please bear with me: I am a christian and have used Christianity as a game component before and think it can work well however it does require some fundamental changes in how things - and magic in particular - are viewed (things which I beleive Celebrim has addressed effectively) anywayFirst a comment on the relative positions of God, Satan and ManSatan is a fallen angel a created being and as far below God I'd make him an Outsider (Solar works) and Epic level Scorcerer Rogue /Barbarian with an Epic Intelligence and Strength.Satan is in fact the enemy of Man (and not God as none is powerful enough to oppose God) and throughout history he attempts to tempt and destroy 'Man'. In Geneis 3.15 (after the Fall from Eden GOD says to the serpent "And I will put enmity between you and the woman And between your seed and her seed. He shall bruise your head And you shall bruise his heel"Anyway Satans role is to TEMPT Man and Accuse him of wrongdoing. The reason GOD allows this is unknown but part of Gods plan.Ultimately however it is the Son of Man (Jesus) who defeats Satan (by his Sacrifice on the Cross) Anyway the point is Satan vs Man (not Satan vs God - and we know from Job that Satan and God talk and 'work' together - with God as referee)Celebrim your discussion of this topic is wonderful and doctrinally sound (from a Christian perspective anyway) Yes God is all powerful and the ONLY diety and this quoted section is excellentAnyway I am most impressed by your 'magic system' which is very insightful and a perfect fit with doctrine. Christian (and Jewish and Islamic imho) clerics invoke the Grace of God and it is God who causes a Miracle. However manifestation of 'Arcane' (and modern pisonic) powers is a deception perpetrated by demons (Divine rank 0). Your description talks of Satans using his own power to make mortals beleive they are casting spells by their own 'power' this fits perfectly and also links back to the belief that Witches familiars were manifest demons. Using your system it is in fact the Familiar which casts spells but lets the mortal beleive that they have the power.I am further impressed by this as it perfectly illustrates the Sin of Vanity (being the beleif that a person has their own 'power' and can do things without God) which was the major cause of Satans fall in the first place (Lucifer beleived he could be 'Like God').  Yes this is absolutely true and magic is mentioned throughout the old testament (in 1 Samuel 28 we even see a case in which a ghost is summoned up) and yes it is extremely dangerous both because it exposes the mortal to 'Spirits' (some of whom are demonic) and because it means relying on power other than the Grace of GodAnyway hope this helps1GOD works through miracles granted to those who have faith2Magic is a deception perpetrated by demons (in the form of Familiars?)3The biggest Sin a Paladin or Cleric can fall into is that of Vanity and beleiving they can do things without relying on the Grace of God.</blockquote>

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