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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 329510" data-attributes="member: 141">I like the idea that Satan is not God's enemy, but humanity's.  And I like the suggestion that even if angels and demons are explicitly described, I think God should still be very mysterious and remote.Speaking of demons, it has always puzzled me why demons, if they are fallen angels, are so dissimilar to angels.  Green Ronin partially addressed that by having a "fallen" template,- has anyone done a "risen" template to illustrate what an unfallen Hezrou or Vrock is like?Anyway, one might try to use opposing templates to create suitable angels and demons.  An angel might be a cloud giant with the half-celestial template on it.  Which would tie nicely in with giants being the offspring of angels and mortals.  A demon might be a half-fiendish cloud giant.Or perhaps elementals.  On a thread in the Conversions forum there was a suggestion that the Balrog in LotR might be modelled as a fire elemental with the shadow template.  I personally think a magma para-elemental (MotP) with the half-fiend template would work great.The axiomatic and anarchic templates could be used in place of the half-celestial and half-fiendish templates, respectively.  You might have to add wings in a separate step, though.Anyway, enough about angels and demons.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I think that the events and "facts" in a setting should be compatible with two (or more) incompatible world-views.  If you were to adopt some vision of medieval catholicism as the mythos of the setting, you might want to ensure that there is a hint or two that maybe the gnostics were right.  Or that at least some angels are muslim, jewish or agnostic instead of catholic.  Make it doubtful about exactly where a spell-caster's power comes from- from God, from Satan, from the wizard himself...?I am pleasantly surprised that the thread has been flame-free for so long.  I find that one of the tricks of keeping things cool is to avoid quoting other people.  I think maybe the bold-face font makes people's blood pressure rise, kind of like using all caps.  Direct refutation or contradiction of someone else is probably a bad idea (not that anyone seems to be doing so)- an indirect approach is best.Regards,</blockquote>

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