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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
On whether sorcerers and wizards should be merged or not, (they shouldn't)
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7915187" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>you having trouble keeping up? I went over the proficiencyskill overlap<a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/on-whether-sorcerers-and-wizards-should-be-merged-or-not-they-shouldnt.670175/page-4#post-7914604" target="_blank"> here</a>... but here it is again.</p><p>Wizard:</p><p>Armor: <strong>None</strong></p><p>Weapons: Daggers, darts, slings, quarterstaffs,</p><p>light crossbows</p><p>Tools: None</p><p>Skills: Choose two from <strong><u>Arcana</u></strong>, <strong>History</strong>, Insight, <strong>Investigation</strong>, Medicine, and <strong>Religion</strong></p><p></p><p>Sorcerer</p><p>Armor: <strong>Light armor</strong></p><p>Weapons: Simple weapons (ie light crossbows <strong>plus</strong> club, dagger, greatclub, handaxe, javelin, light hammer, mace, quarterstaff, sickle, spear, unarmed strike, dart, shortbow, & sling)</p><p>Tools: None</p><p></p><p>and <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/on-whether-sorcerers-and-wizards-should-be-merged-or-not-they-shouldnt.670175/post-7914247" target="_blank">here</a> is the spell list overlap</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cantrip 100% overlap: every single cantrip in the phb on wizard is also on sorcerer list</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">1st level spells: every spell overlaps except wizard has alarm, grease, Identify, Illusory Script, Longstrider, PfG&E,</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2nd level spells: Most spell overlaps except wizard also has access to these while sorc does not... Arcane Lock, Continual Flame, Flaming Sphere, Gentle Repose, Locate Object, Magic Mouth, Magic Weapon, Melfs acid arrow, Nystul's Magic Aura, Ray of enfeeblement, Rope Trick,</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2nd level sorcerer has these spells wizard does not: Enhance ability.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3rd Level: Wizard has these spells not on sorcerer list... Animate dead, Bestow Curse, Feign Death, Glyph of Warding, Tiny Hut, Magic Circle, Nondetection, Remove Curse, Sending, Vampyric Touch</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3rd Level: Sorcerer has daylight , while wizard does not</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4th Level: Wizards also have Arcane Eye, Conjure Minor Elementals, Control Water, Black Tentacles, secret chest, Locate Creature, Faithful Hound, Private Sanctum, Resilient Sphere, Phantasmal Killer, </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4th Level: Sorcerer has dominate beast</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5th: Wizard has Bigsby's Hand, Conjure Elemental, Contact Other Plane, Dream, Gaes, Legend Lore, Mislead, Modify Memory, Passwall, Planar Binding, Telepathic Bond, Scrying, Wall of Force</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5th: Sorcerer has insect plague</li> </ul><p>So on & so forth but 6th level spells on on is well into the point where campaigns have ended or are ending & wotc's own numbers from ddb support that. No doubt there are a handful of useful spells in wizard list but not sorc list... problem being is that almost every single one of the "right spells" as people have been labeling them are on both lists & the spells unique to wizard or ritual spells are not enough to build any kind of meaningful theme or niche around.... If paladin, ranger, EK, & AT had this kind of overlap in so much of their class features people would wonder why they were different classes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7915187, member: 93670"] you having trouble keeping up? I went over the proficiencyskill overlap[URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/on-whether-sorcerers-and-wizards-should-be-merged-or-not-they-shouldnt.670175/page-4#post-7914604'] here[/URL]... but here it is again. Wizard: Armor: [B]None[/B] Weapons: Daggers, darts, slings, quarterstaffs, light crossbows Tools: None Skills: Choose two from [B][U]Arcana[/U][/B], [B]History[/B], Insight, [B]Investigation[/B], Medicine, and [B]Religion[/B] Sorcerer Armor: [B]Light armor[/B] Weapons: Simple weapons (ie light crossbows [B]plus[/B] club, dagger, greatclub, handaxe, javelin, light hammer, mace, quarterstaff, sickle, spear, unarmed strike, dart, shortbow, & sling) Tools: None and [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/on-whether-sorcerers-and-wizards-should-be-merged-or-not-they-shouldnt.670175/post-7914247']here[/URL] is the spell list overlap [LIST] [*]Cantrip 100% overlap: every single cantrip in the phb on wizard is also on sorcerer list [*]1st level spells: every spell overlaps except wizard has alarm, grease, Identify, Illusory Script, Longstrider, PfG&E, [*]2nd level spells: Most spell overlaps except wizard also has access to these while sorc does not... Arcane Lock, Continual Flame, Flaming Sphere, Gentle Repose, Locate Object, Magic Mouth, Magic Weapon, Melfs acid arrow, Nystul's Magic Aura, Ray of enfeeblement, Rope Trick, [*]2nd level sorcerer has these spells wizard does not: Enhance ability. [*]3rd Level: Wizard has these spells not on sorcerer list... Animate dead, Bestow Curse, Feign Death, Glyph of Warding, Tiny Hut, Magic Circle, Nondetection, Remove Curse, Sending, Vampyric Touch [*]3rd Level: Sorcerer has daylight , while wizard does not [*]4th Level: Wizards also have Arcane Eye, Conjure Minor Elementals, Control Water, Black Tentacles, secret chest, Locate Creature, Faithful Hound, Private Sanctum, Resilient Sphere, Phantasmal Killer, [*]4th Level: Sorcerer has dominate beast [*]5th: Wizard has Bigsby's Hand, Conjure Elemental, Contact Other Plane, Dream, Gaes, Legend Lore, Mislead, Modify Memory, Passwall, Planar Binding, Telepathic Bond, Scrying, Wall of Force [*]5th: Sorcerer has insect plague [/LIST] So on & so forth but 6th level spells on on is well into the point where campaigns have ended or are ending & wotc's own numbers from ddb support that. No doubt there are a handful of useful spells in wizard list but not sorc list... problem being is that almost every single one of the "right spells" as people have been labeling them are on both lists & the spells unique to wizard or ritual spells are not enough to build any kind of meaningful theme or niche around.... If paladin, ranger, EK, & AT had this kind of overlap in so much of their class features people would wonder why they were different classes. [/QUOTE]
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