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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7915533" data-attributes="member: 93670">mechanical overlap is the problem because sorcerer just copies &amp; steals from the wizard toolbox while adding a few extra things in order to mechanically create a new class that is trying too hard to copy an existing class rather than having mechanics that support their &quot;theme&quot;.&nbsp; If you want a theme for sorcerer find one that is distinct from wizard rather than changing the cufflinks, adding a bunch of stuff to the wallet, and complaining you don't get to keep the old cufflinks too.If your argument is as it seems that sorcerers should mechanically be everything wizard plus some extra and still be justified in complaining that it doesn't copy or steal enough then you've admitted to straight up munchkinism as your goal.&nbsp; Dressing it up in roleplaying terms like &quot;theme&quot; to hide the absurd level of munchkinism by appearing to be something other than an argument for munchkinism does nothing for your &quot;argument&quot;.Want a class that's a magical being born with some innate thing?... sure I'll even say it's a great idea... want that class to be everything wizard plus a few extra things instead of mechanics that fit the theme?... that nonsense does not even deserve consideration.Jedi could be an &quot;order of sorcerers&quot; &amp; that is one more of the many ways sorcerers could have found their own niche instead of you &amp; [USER=6689464]@MoonSong[/USER]'s &quot;everything wizard has plus some extras &amp; improvements minus the sticky bits like spellbooks &amp; a more useful prime attribute&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp; The jedi are a religious order like clerics not sorcerers because the mechamics don't support that in any way as wizard+</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7915533, member: 93670"] mechanical overlap is the problem because sorcerer just copies & steals from the wizard toolbox while adding a few extra things in order to mechanically create a new class that is trying too hard to copy an existing class rather than having mechanics that support their "theme". If you want a theme for sorcerer find one that is distinct from wizard rather than changing the cufflinks, adding a bunch of stuff to the wallet, and complaining you don't get to keep the old cufflinks too. If your argument is as it seems that sorcerers should mechanically be everything wizard plus some extra and still be justified in complaining that it doesn't copy or steal [I]enough [/I]then you've admitted to straight up munchkinism as your goal. Dressing it up in roleplaying terms like "theme" to hide the absurd level of munchkinism by appearing to be something other than an argument for munchkinism does nothing for your "argument". Want a class that's a magical being born with some innate thing?... sure I'll even say it's a great idea... want that class to be everything wizard plus a few extra things instead of mechanics that fit the theme?... that nonsense does not even deserve consideration. Jedi [I]could[/I] be an "order of sorcerers" & that is one more of the many ways sorcerers could have found their own niche instead of you & [USER=6689464]@MoonSong[/USER]'s "everything wizard has plus some extras & improvements minus the sticky bits like spellbooks & a more useful prime attribute". The jedi are a religious order like clerics not sorcerers because the mechamics don't support that in any way as wizard+ [/QUOTE]

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