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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7917205" data-attributes="member: 93670">if you deliberately ignore large parts of it sure.&nbsp;&nbsp; the spell list is the same on almost every meaningful level. The core class features are out to lunch &amp; classes with what is largely the same spell list bring significant class specific toys to the table on top of their archtype specific ones.&nbsp; Wizards have a spellbook, a half finished ritual soellbook, and mostly late game archtype features to set them apart from classes with most of the same spells.&quot;Many&quot; is a poor choice of words in this case because it's an imprecise undefined number used in a subjective context. every bonus feat it had in 3.5?&nbsp; probably not, some of the later ones are archtype features.&nbsp;&nbsp; one or two in the core class?... yea... definitely so.&nbsp; Somewhere in between like fighters ?... Yea strong maybe or even possibly depending on if wotc ever plans to finish fleshing out ritual spells beyond their notes on a cocktail napkin made during lunch status &amp; to what extent/direction.as to your other question... There is no debate on the objective fact that nearly all of the wizard's spell list is duplicated on the sorcerer list. Rather than getting lost on an endless subjective debate over if a wizard should be a glass cannon, battlefield control, batman, etc &amp; to what degrees... How about instead can you compile a list of top shelf spells in the much smaller handful of wizard specific spells not shared by sorcerer in the section of the spell list copied to sorcerer? There are only a handful of wizard spells each level that are not copied to the sorcerer list, it should be easy for some of the folks who keep pointing at the larger spell list to name the top shelf spells unique to wizards, oddly there doesn't seem to be much interest in doing so even though I've asked quite a few times in the thread</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7917205, member: 93670"] if you deliberately ignore large parts of it sure. the spell list is the same on almost every meaningful level. The core class features are out to lunch & classes with what is largely the same spell list bring significant class specific toys to the table on top of their archtype specific ones. Wizards have a spellbook, a half finished ritual soellbook, and mostly late game archtype features to set them apart from classes with most of the same spells. "Many" is a poor choice of words in this case because it's an imprecise undefined number used in a [B]subjective[/B] context. every bonus feat it had in 3.5? probably not, some of the later ones are archtype features. one or two in the core class?... yea... definitely so. Somewhere in between like fighters ?... Yea strong maybe or even possibly depending on if wotc ever plans to finish fleshing out ritual spells beyond their notes on a cocktail napkin made during lunch status & to what extent/direction. as to your other question... [B] [/B] There is no debate on the objective fact that nearly all of the wizard's spell list is duplicated on the sorcerer list. Rather than getting lost on an endless subjective debate over if a wizard should be a glass cannon, battlefield control, batman, etc & to what degrees... How about instead can you compile a list of top shelf spells in the much smaller handful of wizard specific spells not shared by sorcerer in the section of the spell list copied to sorcerer? There are only a handful of wizard spells each level that are not copied to the sorcerer list, it should be easy for some of the folks who keep pointing at the larger spell list to name the top shelf spells unique to wizards, oddly there doesn't seem to be much interest in doing so even though I've asked quite a few times in the thread [/QUOTE]

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