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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dragonhelm" data-source="post: 3928528" data-attributes="member: 3867">Okay, guys, let's ease up here, okay?  Obviously, there's a couple of different points of view.  I'd really hate for this thread to be closed.I think some of the issues revolve around two different styles of gaming, subjective views, and lack of a standard definition.  For example, what makes a "complete" system?  Can a game be run with C&C?  Yes, and in those regards, it is complete.  If your definition includes rules to cover most situations, then no, it may not be complete.  Debating whether C&C is a complete system is all subjective, and no two parties will agree on what that definition is.We talk about game balance.  I disagree with the assessment that those who want game balance don't trust the DM.  What they're striving for is a fair game and consistency.  The problem with game balance is that it tends to be too much of a focus.  Balance is something to be strived for, but not to the exclusion of the other elements of role-playing.  Balance needs to be balanced itself against role-playing, fun, and so on.  There are times when rules need to be looked up.  No matter what game I play in, I'm always looking up something.  I think, though, that people need to keep in mind pacing.  The last thing you want at the game table is to have bored players while you look up a rule.  If you can find it right away, great.  If not, then make a decision and then look it up later and apply it the right way from the next session on.  DM adjudication should always be in effect, no matter the system.  I think, to be fair, we should also mention modularity.  C&C is modular in a sense in that you can add in many different subsystems.  Some may need more work than others.  Skills, feats, non-weapon proficiencies, etc. are all easy enough to add.  But what about psionics, shadow magic, or incarnum?  Likewise, the d20 system is pretty modular in that a lot of gaming material out there is designed for d20, and can be used right away without much, if any, adjustment.  At the same time, importing non-d20 items can be a bit more tricky.You know, it really is a shame that every time a C&C thread comes along, it becomes so polarized.  I guess the "versus" mentality is just part of society.  You see it  too often.  Personally, I'm of the mind that we, as role-players, need to be more respectful of each others' points of view.  C&C and D&D fit two different styles of gaming.  While one side may not agree with the other, both sides can agree that they like to game.  We should, IMO, be supportive of each other, and respect our differences in opinions.</blockquote>

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