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<blockquote data-quote="Valiant" data-source="post: 3936698" data-attributes="member: 54792">Dris, you chopped my paragraph and it makes it sound as if I'm saying C&amp;C is not a complete system &quot;as is&quot;, what I said was this: &quot;OD&amp;D is a complete and destinct game, the number of rules you have (ie. not covering every situation) has nothing to do with that (as I'm sure you know, there is alot more to determining if a game is complete then the number of rules or situations covered. All thats needed to play D&amp;D or any FRPG is a way to determine who goes first, who hits who, who saves and how you advance. Keep those things core and your set. C&amp;C doesn't do that, it allows for (and encourages) importing core rules from other systems. It essentially allows for each table to invent its own game, so much so that its no longer C&amp;C.&quot;The point of C&amp;C was for it to be a platform one could easily customize (or you could leave it as is and play d20 light).&nbsp; It allows its core systems (see above) to be drastically changed from table to table, something 3E and 1E does not easily do.&nbsp; Both 3E and 1E are &quot;best&quot; when their core systems are left intact with only minor changes (in other words, you can't just dump skills or feats in 3E or dump the tables in 1E). Yes, C&amp;C is a complete game in and of itself, its D20 light.&nbsp; C&amp;Cs flavor and power (as Treebore pointed out to us) comes from each player importing rules (or making them up) to create his unique game.&nbsp; Thats what I mean when I say, C&amp;C has an problem with identity: if you sit at one table it feels like your playing 3E at another 1E.&nbsp; If this is the case, why not just play 3E, D20 light or 1E/OD&amp;D?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Valiant, post: 3936698, member: 54792"] Dris, you chopped my paragraph and it makes it sound as if I'm saying C&C is not a complete system "as is", what I said was this: "OD&D is a complete and destinct game, the number of rules you have (ie. not covering every situation) has nothing to do with that (as I'm sure you know, there is alot more to determining if a game is complete then the number of rules or situations covered. All thats needed to play D&D or any FRPG is a way to determine who goes first, who hits who, who saves and how you advance. Keep those things core and your set. C&C doesn't do that, it allows for (and encourages) importing core rules from other systems. It essentially allows for each table to invent its own game, so much so that its no longer C&C." The point of C&C was for it to be a platform one could easily customize (or you could leave it as is and play d20 light). It allows its core systems (see above) to be drastically changed from table to table, something 3E and 1E does not easily do. Both 3E and 1E are "best" when their core systems are left intact with only minor changes (in other words, you can't just dump skills or feats in 3E or dump the tables in 1E). Yes, C&C is a complete game in and of itself, its D20 light. C&Cs flavor and power (as Treebore pointed out to us) comes from each player importing rules (or making them up) to create his unique game. Thats what I mean when I say, C&C has an problem with identity: if you sit at one table it feels like your playing 3E at another 1E. If this is the case, why not just play 3E, D20 light or 1E/OD&D? [/QUOTE]

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