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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8883156" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I generally don't have to worry about spotlight hogs, but this line of logic often leads to this idea that allowing the high charisma character to "shine" during social encounters is fine, because then the high strength low charisma characters will "shine" during combat.... but that is false. A bard with Expertise in Persuasion and access to Hypnotic Pattern is massively impactful in social encounters AND redefines combat encounters. Meanwhile Rune Knight can be impressive during combat, but has nothing to do during a social encounter. I'm fine with social characters to be more free to act in social encounters, but alternatively, I want non-social characters to have a chance to do something other than say that they perform the help action.I think we are both in agreement, just with different concerns and priorities. I've rarely if ever seen these "crafty" players you are so worried about, because generally the only time those low cha characters get involved is when they get swept up in the story, and I have seen that moment in their eyes when they realize "Oh god, I [bleeped] up, now I have to roll, and I can't reliably make this roll" which is a shame, because then they feel like getting swept up in the story was a mistake.Very niceThe thing is though, then their action is meaningless. The bard with a 10 strength flexing for the thugs is more likely to intimidate them than the Goliath Barbarian with an 18 strength. Even as you lower the DC, the difference between a 1d20-1 and a 1d20+10 is 11 pts. You aren't generally going to reduce the DC by that much. And, your choice of terms reflects a viewpoint. You keep talking about efficiency, about crafty players, phrasing the entire conversation in terms of this player who seems like they are trying to manipulate the DM and the game. I'm looking at this from the perspective of a player who has seen that scene in the movies a dozen times and thinks "Awesome! I can do that thing I thought of when I made my character!" They are trying to recreate a moment from a book or a TV show, which was never a moment created to subvert some system. The system is just there from the game, and getting in the way of the story. Not always, but sometimes. They want the story beat, not efficiency.</blockquote>

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