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<blockquote data-quote="Olrox17" data-source="post: 8883213" data-attributes="member: 6801397"><p>I would like 5e to have more overall balance among the classes, and have actually taken steps in that direction via home rules, but discussing that would be pretty off topic.</p><p></p><p>Interestingly, I don't even allow the standard Help action (boring auto-advantage) unless you are proficient in the skill being used (something the One D&D playtest is also doing). However I allow "non-standard" help when a creative idea is proposed, and generally lower the DC as a result.</p><p>I do not use crafty as an insult, I like crafty players. I just think that, as a DM, I need to be careful how I reward them, so other (possibly less crafty or simply less experienced) players don't get overshadowed.</p><p></p><p>I wouldn't expect a bard with 10 strength and +10 to intimidate (thanks to charisma and maybe expertise?) to try intimidation by muscle flexing. If they choose that route, I'd probably <em>increase</em> the DC (unless they were intimidating an halfling child or something). I'd expect them to try intimidation by subtle coercion, with a DC decrease if they actually manage to uncover enough information about the target ("Isn't your family living in a farm just left of the city gates? What a nice, cozy home it is!").</p><p></p><p>And, well, <em>should</em> the Goliath Barbarian with 8 cha and no intimidation prof be as good at the job than the bard with high Charisma, proficiency and maybe expertise? Heck no, imo. Lowering the DC allows the untrained low cha Barbarian to be adequate at the task, which I believe is more than fair, and ultimately kinda numerically the same as allowing him to use Strength...but:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">the calculation happens on the DM's side of the screen, as it should for reasons I explained <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/one-d-d-cleric-and-species-playtest-survey-is-live.693997/page-7#post-8877531" target="_blank">here</a>;</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">if the barbarian player happened to invest a 12 in Cha instead of an 8, it gets a better bonus, which, I believe, is fair and logical.</li> </ul><p></p><p>Finally, I do not come from an adversarial DM mindset, if that is what you're suspecting. I am a mechanically minded player and DM. The story is important to me, but I've always believed that a good story isn't enough to fix unfun gameplay, while on the contrary, good mechanics will always improve one's enjoyment the story.</p><p>EDIT: I realized that I've been illustrating my position on Alternate Ability Scores for a while now, and spent a lot of virtual words doing so. Perhaps a change of topic would be best?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Olrox17, post: 8883213, member: 6801397"] I would like 5e to have more overall balance among the classes, and have actually taken steps in that direction via home rules, but discussing that would be pretty off topic. Interestingly, I don't even allow the standard Help action (boring auto-advantage) unless you are proficient in the skill being used (something the One D&D playtest is also doing). However I allow "non-standard" help when a creative idea is proposed, and generally lower the DC as a result. I do not use crafty as an insult, I like crafty players. I just think that, as a DM, I need to be careful how I reward them, so other (possibly less crafty or simply less experienced) players don't get overshadowed. I wouldn't expect a bard with 10 strength and +10 to intimidate (thanks to charisma and maybe expertise?) to try intimidation by muscle flexing. If they choose that route, I'd probably [I]increase[/I] the DC (unless they were intimidating an halfling child or something). I'd expect them to try intimidation by subtle coercion, with a DC decrease if they actually manage to uncover enough information about the target ("Isn't your family living in a farm just left of the city gates? What a nice, cozy home it is!"). And, well, [I]should[/I] the Goliath Barbarian with 8 cha and no intimidation prof be as good at the job than the bard with high Charisma, proficiency and maybe expertise? Heck no, imo. Lowering the DC allows the untrained low cha Barbarian to be adequate at the task, which I believe is more than fair, and ultimately kinda numerically the same as allowing him to use Strength...but: [LIST] [*]the calculation happens on the DM's side of the screen, as it should for reasons I explained [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/one-d-d-cleric-and-species-playtest-survey-is-live.693997/page-7#post-8877531']here[/URL]; [*]if the barbarian player happened to invest a 12 in Cha instead of an 8, it gets a better bonus, which, I believe, is fair and logical. [/LIST] Finally, I do not come from an adversarial DM mindset, if that is what you're suspecting. I am a mechanically minded player and DM. The story is important to me, but I've always believed that a good story isn't enough to fix unfun gameplay, while on the contrary, good mechanics will always improve one's enjoyment the story. EDIT: I realized that I've been illustrating my position on Alternate Ability Scores for a while now, and spent a lot of virtual words doing so. Perhaps a change of topic would be best? [/QUOTE]
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