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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8741634" data-attributes="member: 18">This is nonsensical.Answer this question: Why would the Fighter initiate a grapple if they didn't have a specific goal?Until you can answer that, you have a nonsense-example, and you're just supporting my entire argument.They vastly favour monsters.PCs no longer have any ways to scale grapple at all. But loads of monsters have stats which mean they do keep scaling against grappling, and now they get out of grapples at zero cost thanks to the save instead of an action and their multiple attacks, and the fact that Shove is now much easier.The undeniable reality is that PCs only grapple when there's a tactical reason to do so, already. Your super-grapple Bard is just going to die horribly with his crummy AC and HP leaping into melee if he just grapples everything, and he doesn't make monsters unless in 5E, he gets pounded in the face by them until he dies. Which doesn't take long. It's all very well grabbing a demon or whatever, but it's basically the Bard handcuffing himself to a demon rather than vice-versa, and just asking to get ripped apart.Whereas monsters often grapple PCs automatically and for free as part of an action, and often are able to do mean things to people who are grappled. They're impacted far less by this.</blockquote>