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<blockquote data-quote="TheSword" data-source="post: 8743734" data-attributes="member: 6879661"><p>Why is monsters (and PCs) being able to break out of grapples a bad thing? I find PCs don’t like being grappled for extended periods any more than the DM wants their</p><p></p><p>It’s costing the grappled one an attack to get out (at least one). They are getting a debuff until they succeed, and it only costs the grappler one attack. Or they wait until the end of the round, suck up the debuff and get a single free try.</p><p></p><p>I dispute quite heavily your assertion that foes tend to have higher ACs than PCs. I rarely see a combat oriented PC with AC less than 18 and usually considerably higher. I rarely see monsters with AC more than 18.</p><p></p><p>You seem to be only viewing this from the point of view of PCs grappling but they will be on the receiving end too.</p><p></p><p>Grapple does scale, the same way that hit rolls scale - which is through a multitude of methods. It’s also scales in continuing, because the save DC keys of proficiency. I really don’t understand what you mean when you say it doesn’t scale.</p><p></p><p>Shove is about as easy to land and dealing damage is. Any decision to shove has to be balanced against the fact that you might just kill the person and not worry about the grapple at all.</p><p></p><p>I have some sympathy for the argument that armour shouldn’t make you harder to shove or grapple but at the same time AC really covers so many things it could easily just be renamed Defense. I have no desire to return to the days of calculating a whole different CMD that only gets used once every five fights and ten characters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheSword, post: 8743734, member: 6879661"] Why is monsters (and PCs) being able to break out of grapples a bad thing? I find PCs don’t like being grappled for extended periods any more than the DM wants their It’s costing the grappled one an attack to get out (at least one). They are getting a debuff until they succeed, and it only costs the grappler one attack. Or they wait until the end of the round, suck up the debuff and get a single free try. I dispute quite heavily your assertion that foes tend to have higher ACs than PCs. I rarely see a combat oriented PC with AC less than 18 and usually considerably higher. I rarely see monsters with AC more than 18. You seem to be only viewing this from the point of view of PCs grappling but they will be on the receiving end too. Grapple does scale, the same way that hit rolls scale - which is through a multitude of methods. It’s also scales in continuing, because the save DC keys of proficiency. I really don’t understand what you mean when you say it doesn’t scale. Shove is about as easy to land and dealing damage is. Any decision to shove has to be balanced against the fact that you might just kill the person and not worry about the grapple at all. I have some sympathy for the argument that armour shouldn’t make you harder to shove or grapple but at the same time AC really covers so many things it could easily just be renamed Defense. I have no desire to return to the days of calculating a whole different CMD that only gets used once every five fights and ten characters. [/QUOTE]
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