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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 8788516" data-attributes="member: 58197">Why do we need something that is "functionally close enough" to the start of combat, when it could be exactly equal to the start of combat, simply by saying "at the start of combat?"That is how the rulebook defines it. Yet the rulebook also makes it clear that it happens right before combat, because no one has actually done anything yet. And it is possible, if rare, for the people involved to make choices that result in combat not happening. It's a mechanic that works smoothly in most cases but gets wonky under close examination, and the more rules effects are hung on it, the more close examination it will have to bear.Furthermore, hanging a lot of effects on the initiative roll means there are now significant consequences for using it "off-label," so to speak--as a tool for determining the sequence of events in a noncombat situation. While that use of initiative is not an official rule in 5E, it's a very helpful option to have.As things stand, I don't think it's a big deal. Aside from things which modify the initiative roll itself, there aren't any "when you roll initiative" effects below 18th level in the current playtest packet. By the time you hit level 18, sorting out the precise meaning of "roll initiative" is the least of the DM's problems. But I hope they don't start using this mechanic more broadly.</blockquote>