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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9093264" data-attributes="member: 6750235">You're right, no one is taking versatile because of the off chance they might lose their shield.  Versatile comes into play in that situational instance when they are sword and board and coincidently lose the shield.  The versatile property is more of a ribbon in that scenario.People do use versatile when they cannot use a shield in the first place for whatever reason.  Monk is an example.  Many spellcasters who might be in a silence area or antimagic area forced to melee are going to use versatile as a situational benefit.  Or a low level bard (simple weapons) down to vicious mockery and looking for some damage.  Situationally something that helps.The longsword vs rapier point is a criticism of the longsword and not representative of versatile.  Not every character who might melee has access to those weapons.  Versatile does add damage over a rapier with flex when the other hand is holding a shield or another weapon (using the dual wielder feat), however.  Vex only works when advantage doesn't already exist.  At that point it's nothing.If there's another source of advantage vex is pointless.  Once an opponent is toppled that opponent cannot be further toppled.  Once an opponent is slowed that opponent cannot be further slowed.  Once an opponent is sapped that opponent cannot be further sapped.  Push is restricted by size.  Even nick is pointless for someone using TWF if there's no option to use that bonus action.  Flex with versatile always adds damage.A 13th level fighter can use topple and flex with a long sword, topple an opponent, and then attack with d10's on the prone opponent.  That fighter cannot prone the same opponent twice while prone applies the benefits of vex and sap as part of the condition so flex works with that combo.Versatility isn't just for fighters (monks make the most use of it), and flex as a secondary to topple isn't a poor choice.  If the long sword is giving a d12 on flex what's the point of a battle axe or great sword at that point?  Most fighters are going to have the same damage plus the AC bonus from a shield at that point and take dueling style.</blockquote>

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