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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 9101426" data-attributes="member: 7006">Maybe you have something else in mind (in which case the following comments will not apply to you and feel free to ignore.)  But for everyone else......the answer I always seem to hear from people about "solving" the Fighter's out of combat agency is to just "give them more skills."  Which I'm sorry, does not in any way do what they say it does.  Gaining an additional 2 points (from prof bonus) to a couple more skills does not in any way make this grand marked change to what Fighters can now do out of combat.  Especially considering those points will probably end up having to go to skills where the Fighter already has lower ability modifiers, which means they will still remain under other members of the party with those skills.  The Fighter goes from a +1 to Insight to +3.  Great.  Meanwhile the Cleric has a +5 to Insight and is still the party's lie detector.  So what did those two skills really end up gaining the Fighter for OOC agency?  In Insight's case, a 10% bonus on the chance when they find themselves all alone having to determine someone's honesty and not being able to rely on the Cleric.  They need to be by themselves in 10 different scenes for one of those scenes to become a success that wouldn't have been previously because they now have the skill.  As far as I'm concerned... having a couple more skills did not in any way actually change the Fighter's out of combat paradigm.And also in truth, even for those players who think extra skills DO solve the Fighter's OOC issues... the problem has actually been solved already and most people don't even realize it.  WotC made extra skills available to players who actually think it's truly important by giving Fighters an additional feat slot at 6th level, which means they can take the Skilled feat and get THREE more skill proficiencies if they really wanted to.  If Fighter players want more proficient skills without even having to "lose out" to other classes in the standardized ASI/Feat system at 4th/8th/12th/etc... they can take Skilled at 6th level and get whatever they feel they need.But how many Fighter players ever actually do that?  I'll bet you virtually none.  Because when push comes to shove, none of those Fighter players actually care that much about "out of combat agency" when they instead can just be better at beating people up.  They'll use their free ASI/Feat to either boost STR again, or get another combat ability.So what we end up with is some people wanting WotC to FORCE Fighter players to have more supposed "out of combat agency" by not giving them a choice in the matter and have 2 skills given to them automatically as class features.  And the reason I suspect they want that is because they know in their heart-of-hearts that Fighters being "better out of combat" is merely an aspirational ideal that would "make the game better"... but in reality they (and everyone else) know almost no one actually gives much of a darn about it.</blockquote>

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