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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 9118166" data-attributes="member: 2525"><p>For non-combat spells, I think there are two types, and only one of them has the potential to evoke "Non-casters should get equivalent type non-combat abilities."</p><p></p><p>Type 1: This type of spell includes all three of A) Party agrees the spell should be cast; 2) Spell benefits the party members equally, and 3) Spell doesn't involve more than incidental spotlight on the caster. Examples include: Tiny Hut, Speak with Dead, Divination spells, etc.. These spells, to me, are essentially no different than a joint party resource similar to a shared magic item. Now of course people can have issues with an individual spell (a lot of people don't like Tiny Hut) but the issue isn't with spellcasters and non-combat specifically, it's with the spell and resting rules. Nothing about that spell involves spotlight issues taking away more than incidental spotlight from another PC. </p><p></p><p>Type 2: This type of spell, while it might involve the party agreeing the caster should cast it and it may benefit the party members equally, often does draw more than incidental spotlight on the caster. Examples include: Charm Person (they have the Charmed condition only with regard to the caster so the Caster engages in social interaction with them), Familiars and other summoned creatures who engage in extensive scouting, etc..</p><p></p><p>It's only Type 2 which draws spotlight and therefore is an issue which potentially should be addressed by either granting non-casters equivalent spotlight-drawing non-combat abilities, or adjusting those spells to become a Type 1 spell. </p><p></p><p>Ways they could do that could be things like Charm Person now charms the target so that the target is charmed by everyone in the party, not just the caster. Familiars could maybe benefit from better scouting rules in general which specify certain information-gathering checks during scouting, and then the ability of the caster to grant control over the familiar during an extended scouting foray to another party member and tie those checks to the abilities of the party member in control. That way if the Rogue has the skills for scouting, the Caster would have incentive to grant the Rogue control over the familiar during the scouting mission, and spotlight falls back on the PC who invested in the scouting specialization.</p><p></p><p>Another method would be to literally create a shared magic item with the spell. Cast Charm Person into a token whi, and then any party member can use the token to charm someone. </p><p></p><p>I wish the discussion revolved more around the specific spells that, in my opinion, are most often Type 2 spells rather than grouping all non-combat spells into a single batch of "non-casters deserve equivalent abilities."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 9118166, member: 2525"] For non-combat spells, I think there are two types, and only one of them has the potential to evoke "Non-casters should get equivalent type non-combat abilities." Type 1: This type of spell includes all three of A) Party agrees the spell should be cast; 2) Spell benefits the party members equally, and 3) Spell doesn't involve more than incidental spotlight on the caster. Examples include: Tiny Hut, Speak with Dead, Divination spells, etc.. These spells, to me, are essentially no different than a joint party resource similar to a shared magic item. Now of course people can have issues with an individual spell (a lot of people don't like Tiny Hut) but the issue isn't with spellcasters and non-combat specifically, it's with the spell and resting rules. Nothing about that spell involves spotlight issues taking away more than incidental spotlight from another PC. Type 2: This type of spell, while it might involve the party agreeing the caster should cast it and it may benefit the party members equally, often does draw more than incidental spotlight on the caster. Examples include: Charm Person (they have the Charmed condition only with regard to the caster so the Caster engages in social interaction with them), Familiars and other summoned creatures who engage in extensive scouting, etc.. It's only Type 2 which draws spotlight and therefore is an issue which potentially should be addressed by either granting non-casters equivalent spotlight-drawing non-combat abilities, or adjusting those spells to become a Type 1 spell. Ways they could do that could be things like Charm Person now charms the target so that the target is charmed by everyone in the party, not just the caster. Familiars could maybe benefit from better scouting rules in general which specify certain information-gathering checks during scouting, and then the ability of the caster to grant control over the familiar during an extended scouting foray to another party member and tie those checks to the abilities of the party member in control. That way if the Rogue has the skills for scouting, the Caster would have incentive to grant the Rogue control over the familiar during the scouting mission, and spotlight falls back on the PC who invested in the scouting specialization. Another method would be to literally create a shared magic item with the spell. Cast Charm Person into a token whi, and then any party member can use the token to charm someone. I wish the discussion revolved more around the specific spells that, in my opinion, are most often Type 2 spells rather than grouping all non-combat spells into a single batch of "non-casters deserve equivalent abilities." [/QUOTE]
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