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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8739216" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I'm still playing catch-up today (it was a very busy day) but I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the goals of the spell list. If you read the document it says </p><p></p><p><em>"There are now three main Spell lists in the</em></p><p><em>game: Arcane, Divine, and Primal. In future</em></p><p><em>Unearthed Arcana articles, we’ll show how</em></p><p><em>Classes use these lists and how a Class or</em></p><p><em>Subclass might gain Spells from another list."</em></p><p></p><p>So, what does this mean? Well, we don't entirely know, but it could be HIGHLY possible that the goal is that you will still have class spell lists, but you will ALSO have these generic lists. What this could mean is that the Wizard, Artificer, Sorcerer, Warlock and Bard get access to the same pool of Arcane Spells, then the Bard gets a list of specifically bardic spells. Or maybe, I heard one person say, the change will be that Bard's get magical secrets earlier, and will be able to snipe healing spells from the Divine List. But, here's the real kicker that I think was the point. I'd bet that the Bard is going to have Magical Secrets that say "Pick X spells from the Divine or Primal Spell list" but they WON'T be able to grab from the ranger or paladin spell lists. This gives some additional ways to prevent unintended cross-over. </p><p></p><p>Also note, that the Arcane list doesn't include Eldritch Blast. This is important because it means you CAN'T take a feat that gives you eldritch blast. You need to be a warlock to get it. So no more having a Sorcerer take Magic Initiate Warlock and getting Eldritch Blast, or any of the other cheese things that came from being able to grab specific spells meant for specific builds. This also means that an Eldritch Knight can just get "Arcane Spells" instead of being limited to "Partial Wizard list" </p><p></p><p>Yes, this does mean that certain specific builds are now possible that weren't possible, or are not possible that were possible. But I don't think the goal is to have only three spell lists, not with the blatantly obvious ommisions from the 1st level spells and the missing Eldritch Blast.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Only if you choose to do it that way. They explicitly say you can modify the backgrounds, just like Tasha's allows you to modify the races. This isn't a real concern unless you refuse to allow that customization on either end. And the UA is explicit by listing two different ways to customize the backgrounds. Customizing them will be core.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There will be rules conflicts, but I think the bigger question is where those conflicts appear. </p><p></p><p>Sure, Tavern Brawler 2014 is different than Tavern Brawler 2024. That's not a "rules conflict" any more than taking the Beast of the Sky for the Beast Master ranger is a "rules conflict" with the PHB Beast Master. It's just a new version, new option. Most of the character creation is going to look identical between the two editions, with the 2024 having +1 Language (total three), +1 Tool, and the feat. Easy things to convert. </p><p></p><p>The bigger changes come on the DM side. Changes to grapple, adding slowed, changes to unarmed strikes, These are deeply significant changes... but entirely on the DM side. These changes aren't going to make the character you build look significantly different. And that's no different than the DMG allowing for proficiency dice, or Theros giving us the Piety system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8739216, member: 6801228"] I'm still playing catch-up today (it was a very busy day) but I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the goals of the spell list. If you read the document it says [I]"There are now three main Spell lists in the game: Arcane, Divine, and Primal. In future Unearthed Arcana articles, we’ll show how Classes use these lists and how a Class or Subclass might gain Spells from another list."[/I] So, what does this mean? Well, we don't entirely know, but it could be HIGHLY possible that the goal is that you will still have class spell lists, but you will ALSO have these generic lists. What this could mean is that the Wizard, Artificer, Sorcerer, Warlock and Bard get access to the same pool of Arcane Spells, then the Bard gets a list of specifically bardic spells. Or maybe, I heard one person say, the change will be that Bard's get magical secrets earlier, and will be able to snipe healing spells from the Divine List. But, here's the real kicker that I think was the point. I'd bet that the Bard is going to have Magical Secrets that say "Pick X spells from the Divine or Primal Spell list" but they WON'T be able to grab from the ranger or paladin spell lists. This gives some additional ways to prevent unintended cross-over. Also note, that the Arcane list doesn't include Eldritch Blast. This is important because it means you CAN'T take a feat that gives you eldritch blast. You need to be a warlock to get it. So no more having a Sorcerer take Magic Initiate Warlock and getting Eldritch Blast, or any of the other cheese things that came from being able to grab specific spells meant for specific builds. This also means that an Eldritch Knight can just get "Arcane Spells" instead of being limited to "Partial Wizard list" Yes, this does mean that certain specific builds are now possible that weren't possible, or are not possible that were possible. But I don't think the goal is to have only three spell lists, not with the blatantly obvious ommisions from the 1st level spells and the missing Eldritch Blast. Only if you choose to do it that way. They explicitly say you can modify the backgrounds, just like Tasha's allows you to modify the races. This isn't a real concern unless you refuse to allow that customization on either end. And the UA is explicit by listing two different ways to customize the backgrounds. Customizing them will be core. There will be rules conflicts, but I think the bigger question is where those conflicts appear. Sure, Tavern Brawler 2014 is different than Tavern Brawler 2024. That's not a "rules conflict" any more than taking the Beast of the Sky for the Beast Master ranger is a "rules conflict" with the PHB Beast Master. It's just a new version, new option. Most of the character creation is going to look identical between the two editions, with the 2024 having +1 Language (total three), +1 Tool, and the feat. Easy things to convert. The bigger changes come on the DM side. Changes to grapple, adding slowed, changes to unarmed strikes, These are deeply significant changes... but entirely on the DM side. These changes aren't going to make the character you build look significantly different. And that's no different than the DMG allowing for proficiency dice, or Theros giving us the Piety system. [/QUOTE]
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