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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thanatos" data-source="post: 3095600" data-attributes="member: 5261">In all the threads I've seen here and on wizards, it hasn't show the martial adept classes to be grossly overpowered. I've seen fighter and barbarian builds which were just as capable of dishing out equal and more damage in given rounds, making the +100 damage not so impressive at all.Given that there is no errata (though there is an thread on the forums with customer service responses), there could very well be use of maneuvers in ways that are not intended. We didn't find anything though when using the material as is, but that obviously doesn't mean it isn't there -- we don't have any super min/maxers in our group.We played a standard game, standard wealth, classes written as is, no house rules, core books + PHB II + Nine Swords + Complete Warrior for our testing. We found the results I posted in my above post. Powerful, but not broken or overpowreed. Still overshadoweed by the casting classes and comparable only to traditional melee when that melee was both well built/designed and using PHB II/Complete Warrior material.I don't see why you could compare a warblade to a druid, its really still apples to organges. The +100 dmg ability is a 19/20th level ability and a druid would destroy a warblade at that level. We found that our wablade didn't have the staying power of a heavily armored fighter as a front line combatant, despite having a larger hit die and other abilities, his medium armor and limited feats reduce the time he is able to stand along that line. Like the rest of the martial adept classes, longer fights give them more trouble and balance them better against other melee. Though the warblade suffers the least in this regard.So, with nerfing a warblade, I could see how it could stand against a lower level caster and be potent. But it makes it far from standard testing the classes and gives a skewed result. The paradigm of the casting classes is that they are weaker and become more powerful so all the melee can handle lower level casters.As for Kensai, I've not played with one of them, but its entirely possible its one of the weaker classes. The Swashbuckler would suck terribly compared to any of the martial adept classes. Not all classes are 100% equal is a given.Avalanche of blades...lets talk about that. Any miss ends the attack. It's a 7th level ability (13-14th level). You make your attack as normal, then the next is -4, then the next is -8, then -12, -16, -20, -24, -28, -32. Warblade at 14th level has +14 BAB for his first attack, even if it was pumped up +5, thats still +19. I'd say, that was ran completely wrong or the BBEG had a super low AC or your warblade player rolls super high on his D20 all the time (which is not a fault of the class). If this was done at level 20, it still holds true regarding your bad guy, because ultimately his ac should be that much higher -- I'd be very surprised you'd continue hitting with regular attacks once you hit the -20 range.Edit add: On the savings throw -- if you have used a counter or boost already, you can't apply those kind of abilities. If you change stances, you can't. If you refresh your maneuvers, you can't. I'm not sure what ability you are talking about here, I can't find a single one that lets you add that to any save you want. I see multiple ones which let you use skills to add to save, but that is going to cut down on how many damage abilities he has available if he is taking these.In my opinion, your testing was skewed and not standard. Doesn't sound like the DM really had a good understanding of these classes either.</blockquote>

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