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<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5405752" data-attributes="member: 80487">Without * what *, for instance? One complicated mechanism wouldn't be a &quot;heap&quot;, but it might be a clue as to how in the world you figure.I don't have C&amp;C handy, but I can tell you from memory that the reason the text -- the Players Handbook alone, I think -- is so much longer than the original three Little Brown Books is not because the game is simpler! Actually, I think it manages to cover significantly *less* with so much wordage because the &quot;basics&quot; are so relatively baroque.Are you actually acquainted with Swords &amp; Wizardry?At any rate, the mechanisms -- &quot;complicated&quot; or not -- are largely not the concern of the players. The one bit someone may really need to know is what spells do in general terms, and how many he can cast. For fighters (and thieves, if you've got 'em) that number is zero.That, above all, makes the classic easier to start playing immediately. Just answer the question, &quot;What will you do now?&quot;, in plain English (or whatever language the participants speak).Meaning what? No monsters or magic?For crying out loud, RISUS consists mainly of several pages of ways to make dice-rolling more complicated. It's essentially nothing but combat rules -- and those are longer than the basic combat rules in OD&amp;D.Seriously. The OD&amp;D combat system (including saves and turning) *and* the spell lists fit (in the original booklets' not-tiny type) on both sides of one letter-sized sheet -- with more than a quarter page left over!Most of that space is taken up with tables that give you basically whole universes of possible numbers, such as rolls to hit, so there's **no need to perform calculations** except in special cases. Only a fraction of the set is likely to be used at any one time -- for instance, 1st-3rd level fighters but not 13th-15th level. It's like 4e's DMG Page 42 plus Page Whatever (for monsters), except that (a) it's simpler and (b) you don't need another 30+ pp. of rules just for fighting. Toss a d20, and if the roll is high enough then toss a d6 for damage -- easy peasy.From what I have seen (which is quite a lot), this is pretty par for the course for the supposedly &quot;simpler than D&amp;D&quot; games. For another instance, I dig Greg Stafford's Prince Valiant -- but it has whole layers of added complexity.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 5405752, member: 80487"] Without * what *, for instance? One complicated mechanism wouldn't be a "heap", but it might be a clue as to how in the world you figure. I don't have C&C handy, but I can tell you from memory that the reason the text -- the Players Handbook alone, I think -- is so much longer than the original three Little Brown Books is not because the game is simpler! Actually, I think it manages to cover significantly *less* with so much wordage because the "basics" are so relatively baroque. Are you actually acquainted with Swords & Wizardry? At any rate, the mechanisms -- "complicated" or not -- are largely not the concern of the players. The one bit someone may really need to know is what spells do in general terms, and how many he can cast. For fighters (and thieves, if you've got 'em) that number is zero. That, above all, makes the classic easier to start playing immediately. Just answer the question, "What will you do now?", in plain English (or whatever language the participants speak). Meaning what? No monsters or magic? For crying out loud, RISUS consists mainly of several pages of ways to make dice-rolling more complicated. It's essentially nothing but combat rules -- and those are longer than the basic combat rules in OD&D. Seriously. The OD&D combat system (including saves and turning) *and* the spell lists fit (in the original booklets' not-tiny type) on both sides of one letter-sized sheet -- with more than a quarter page left over! Most of that space is taken up with tables that give you basically whole universes of possible numbers, such as rolls to hit, so there's **no need to perform calculations** except in special cases. Only a fraction of the set is likely to be used at any one time -- for instance, 1st-3rd level fighters but not 13th-15th level. It's like 4e's DMG Page 42 plus Page Whatever (for monsters), except that (a) it's simpler and (b) you don't need another 30+ pp. of rules just for fighting. Toss a d20, and if the roll is high enough then toss a d6 for damage -- easy peasy. From what I have seen (which is quite a lot), this is pretty par for the course for the supposedly "simpler than D&D" games. For another instance, I dig Greg Stafford's Prince Valiant -- but it has whole layers of added complexity. [/QUOTE]

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