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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9300015" data-attributes="member: 18">Ahhh finally, a view even more cynical than mine!And an awful lot of games - indeed almost any game which isn't fairly directly D&D-derived, either has Clerics and Wizards as the same class, or "healer caster" is essentially a kind of Wizard, and has "wizardine" characteristics (i.e. staff, robes, may owe allegiance to a supernal being but isn't usually powered by faith, and so on).Random list of examples:Elder Scrolls - Wizard and Clerics are the same thing.Dragon's Dogma 1/2 - Wizard and Clerics are the same thing.Dark Souls/Elden Ring - Classless, but they use different stats - Arcane and Faith in ER, though a lot of more powerful magic requires both Arcane and FaithThe Witcher 1/2/3 - Wizards and Clerics are the same thing.Final Fantasy - Varies but there are none where "Clerics" are really a thing, just healing-oriented robe/staff casters exist in some - most casters in most games can potentially cast heals though.Ultima series - Wizards and Clerics are the same thing.World of Warcraft - Complicated because Mages can't heal - except in the new experimental version of Classic, where they can, but Priests are a weird hybrid of Divine magic, Psionic-style stuff, and Cthulhu-adjacent stuff, and Paladins are basically D&D Clerics but with the faith element turned down very low (and not required at all in some cases). There's also a new-ish class which has Arcane magic AND healing - but is only available to dragon-people race.Dragon Age - Wizards and Clerics are the same thing.Pillars of Eternity 1/2- Intentional BG throwback and Wizards and Priests are very much separate and somewhat D&D-like, as are Druids (who can heal), Ciphers (Psions - can't heal), and Chanters (Bards - can heal, or at least pump out a ton of THP, I forget).I could go on. And the same is true in a lot of TT RPGs - it's rare to see anything Cleric-like unless a game is OSR or otherwise aping D&D, and even then it's no guarantee. It's an old tradition, too - Shadowrun, one of the first RPGs I played after D&D, in about 1990, has Wizards and Clerics as the same thing.</blockquote>

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