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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9314982" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Okay. Clerics and druids don't keep up with actual weapon using characters with weapons either, unless you build for it. This doesn't mean they don't have builds that do exactly that.Glad we have some common ground.No, not true at all. Wizard subclasses can do a lot, and the other casters DON'T cover all of the interesting concepts. But the wizard spell list needs to stop being the ultimate spell list.I think that is a good idea, but I wouldn't have them just be songs. Dancing bards are also a very powerful concept. This is why I said "rhythm based" because I want them to work for song AND dance concepts. There is a powerful theme that could be tapped into with that concept, and the idea of echoes of the past.</blockquote>